The Entrepreneurial Chef - A Radical Dining Car Concept

[bostontrainguy]

Okay it's just an idea but what if Amtrak tries this?

Take one popular train like the Silver Meteor. Run it through to Boston in a Regional slot to generate some good major city press about this unique new opportunity to ride in a real railroad dining car.

Let four chefs bid on four slots (assuming 4 sets of equipment). Each chef gets to run one dining car turn. They have control of what to order and cook. They can get as creative as they want. They make the menus and they set their own prices. They can hire the servers they know are good or make it a family affair like many mom and pop restaurants. They must open for at least the traditional dining car hours but can also operate up to 24 hours if they want. They got a pretty good captive audience to sell to.

The entrepreneurial chef does not get paid by Amtrak but they get to keep any profits that they make. They get to run their own restaurant without the risk and expense. I am sure there are Amtrak chefs out there who have great ideas on how to run a dining car but never got the chance to do it. I can see a spirited competition between the four chefs generating some good press and having people riding certain trains just for each different culinary experience. Each chef could have his or her own specialty.

The cost to run the dining car for Amtrak would be little to nothing. Amtrak can proudly tell the story of the unique opportunity it has given to these hard working men and woman who toil very hard at their craft behind the scenes. I think this could be a pretty exciting opportunity for some hard working folks who would never get such a chance in their lifetime.

Could it work? Silver Star and Lake Shore Limited next if it does.

[Gilbert B Norman]

Well Mr. Trainguy, you titled that one properly - Radical.

No reason to reiterate the litany of reasons that will never happen. But it made for a fun read.

[mtuandrew]

Sounds like a libertarian dream! I’m not even joking - the space & amenities are provided at a flat fee, there’s low barriers to entry and low overhead, you’re virtually guaranteed customers if you have a good product, and you as the chef/manager can do whatever you want (within reason) to make money.

If One Mass decided to release a RFP or RFQ here though, it would include ground rules which may include:

Type of cuisine: will the traveling public go for a menu from Eastern Europe, the Mediterranean, south or east Asia, east or west Africa, or native to the Americas, or do they expect something “American-style” derived from largely northern European origins? Can it vary by train? By location en route? (Can you serve New York-style slices southbound from NYP, but étouffée northbound from NOL?) And should Amtrak insist on a few types of food (like Railroad French Toast) and varieties (some number of vegetarian vegan-adaptable dishes)?

Hours of Service: When must you open? When can you be open? Are you allowed to also be a late-night bar, and how late can you keep serving? Can you start cooking & serving even before departure from NYP, or do you need to wait for some distance out of the tunnels?

Work Rules: Amtrak is a Union shop. Assume we aren’t changing that, so if you have a non-Union workforce like NexDine on the Downeaster Amtrak would get to specify a minimum wage and benefits package. Beyond that, there’s obviously the onboard service rules - but a private company may have and enforce a higher service standard in some ways than Amtrak itself. Do the servers keep all tips, is it shared between servers and cooks, or does the chef share them too (and who accounts for it?)

Meal Prices and Compensation: are we decoupling meals from sleeper fare? Probably a good idea, but if not, how much does Amtrak reimburse per meal? And what’s the floor and what’s the ceiling for a cup of coffee, a sandwich, a steak, or a martini?

Miscellanies: a successful diner will generate a lot more waste than the current model since it’ll have a higher customer throughout. Less food waste perhaps, but more plates & flatware. Do first class passengers get “dibs” on diner seating? Do you make the contractor collect trash from the takeout meals (which I expect will be more prevalent than sit-down), or does Amtrak handle that? Can you have an open bar? A full coffeeshop with espresso machines?

As Mr. Norman said, this probably wouldn’t succeed, but it’s an interesting thought experiment.

[STrRedWolf]

Definitely radical idea. It’s spawned some random ideas:

I have to wonder if the chef staff need to be certified conductors on the route.

I also wonder if custom equipment could be used... geesh, is there anything that the Bombardier MultiLevel can’t go through? Because I think I can get a full diner on that. Ether way, swapping a diner car out sounds interesting.

Timing I have to wonder about, because you have breakfast/lunch/dinner, plus late night. I can see 6a-10:30a breakfast, 11a-4p lunch, 5p-9p dinner, and late night is prepackaged handled by the cafe car.

And finally, in taking it possibly too far, I can also see Amtrak popping a deal with Gordon Ramsey’s various TV shows. Master Chef going off the rails, sometimes literally? Oh gawd, I can just hear the swearing from coach...

[David Benton]

Perhaps a start would be to allow (licence) food carts to ride the NEC trains. Same kind of controls required, but retain the cafe car so no loss of Amtrak jobs.

[John_Perkowski]

I like the concept, but I will say waiting table in a vehicle loving at 70MPH is just a bit different than being in a nice still building.

[STrRedWolf]

Perhaps a start would be to allow (licence) food carts to ride the NEC trains. Same kind of controls required, but retain the cafe car so no loss of Amtrak jobs.

That's another idea to add on top. It won't replace the cafe car (probably be an at-seat snacks/drinks cart, no hot/cold food), but another way to gain revenue.

[Gilbert B Norman]

Possibly that the New Haven RR had Non-Agreement, outside contractor, "news butchers" aboard could be used as a "wedge" if Amtrak was of mind to try something like Mr. Wolf suggests.

The PRR did same, but used Agreement DCD employees.

[Arborwayfan]

This is awfully close to what went on on the IP Hoosier State. Yes, the chef there was a paid employee of IP, and I don't think he controlled the menu, and of course IP provided the car as well. But you had an independently operated dining car offering food for almost the whole run. The company chose to offer fancier services (china and steel) than Amtrak diners. The meals were intrinsically cheaper meals (burgers and similar, not steaks) than Amtrak dining cars, but they were cooked to order, nicely garnished. It was like having a really good diner (the stationary kind) on a train, so that even though the prices were higher than on land they were reasonable for a plated meal with table service. I had a chat with the chef, who seemed to like the job despite the really weird hours. He worked every run of the Hoosier State and the company gave him a place to sleep all day in Chicago. I think he managed the supplies, which got loaded in Indy, IIRC.

SOOO maybe it would actually possible to try something out by starting on a state-supported line that does not currently have food service, just like the Hoosier State was. No union employees would lose their jobs that way, so the negotiations might be easier. Amtrak could also do it in-house: offer their own employees the chance to apply to run a diner on a short route. And if it worked well, Amtrak could expand to longer routes.

**People might remember that ever since I rode the IP Hoosier State I've been wondering if actual diners might actually pay for themselves on short day trains, where the problem of keeping food in stock would be less, where employees wouldn't need a dorm car, and where there would be just money purchases, no sleeper accounting to deal with. And where people might like to make their hour-long trip dinner-train fashion, reserving a seat in the diner to eat on the way.

[mtuandrew]

Having an agreement employee (or even a non-agreement employee) of Amtrak manage dining service as a for-profit enterprise is... intriguing. It puts even less risk on the employee, who I presume would retain standard NRPC benefits and protections but at a relatively low pay rate - say, $60,000/year salary without overtime pay. I feel like that’s enough for an employee-manager to get by in lean times (like during COVID) but low enough that they’d be “hungry” for more. How would you handle additional staff?

I also think that employee should have access to an Amtrak credit card to stock their commissary. This would need to be carefully monitored by the Amtrak OIG of course - I can think of a million ways this could be abused - and limited to setup costs and weekly food budget. They could get very creative with that budget though, like contracting for a full year of CSA vegetable and meat deliveries for farm-to-rail dining.

For additional compensation, beyond the cost of food and the marginal cost of dining car operation (the cost of dragging and powering a V-II or S-I/II around, plus a small amount for a maintenance fund) I think the employee(s) should be able to split any profits with Amtrak approximately 50/50. Any losses would go to Amtrak exclusively, but would also lead to cancellation of the contract after a year if those losses were deemed excessive (not abnormal, like during a pandemic.)

[BitterOldRRExec]

Cool idea!

I would alter it somewhat and make it a season on something like the Food Channel and not limit it to Amtrak employees. Also it would be on a NEC Regional train, not LD.

Each episode could be a Celebrity Chef-type wannabe. S/he plans the menu within the constraints of a dining car kitchen. Make it an extra car at the rear of a NE Regional train so as not to upset the Amtrak unions, and invite regular passengers back to experience the food and rate it.

The Food Channel would pay for it all through advertising revenue.

[STrRedWolf]

Cool idea!

I would alter it somewhat and make it a season on something like the Food Channel and not limit it to Amtrak employees. Also it would be on a NEC Regional train, not LD.

Each episode could be a Celebrity Chef-type wannabe. S/he plans the menu within the constraints of a dining car kitchen. Make it an extra car at the rear of a NE Regional train so as not to upset the Amtrak unions, and invite regular passengers back to experience the food and rate it.

The Food Channel would pay for it all through advertising revenue.

NY to BWI is 2h30m. If you put the diner car on the right train runs, you'll catch the breakfast/lunch/dinner crowds on one day. Add how small 1080p30 cameras can be (Raspberry Pi Zeros) and mics are...

You know, that can be cheap to produce. At least 15 cameras... $10 for the Pi Zero W for wireless control, $25 for the camera module, $15 for a USB mic + actual mic, mount you can 3D print, power & cable is cheap ($5)... $55 times 15... $825 for cameras, and maybe two people (technician and director) to manage it. Everything else is edit room.

I can see a weekly season like that. I can also see it extended to the LD lines.