Amtrak Contraction Ideas <DUCKS>

[Jeff Smith]

Well, I know this won't be a popular topic, but with all the "Whither Amtrak" talk in the separate eponymous topic, I thought it would be a good idea.

So, what would you contract if you were looking to pare some of the system's inefficiencies and huge money losers? Which routes could/should be eliminated, which should be reduced to corridors?

I nominate the Sunset. Okay, I know, easy, but I used to be a good softball player and can really tee them up LOL.

[Pensyfan19]

Don't eliminate anything since that would betaking away traveling options for travelers along the routes to be eliminated in order to save a buck. Reduce all West Coast LD Trains to regional corridors, such as splitting up the CZ into three different sections, and still keep one tri-weekly LD train which covers the whole distance. For example, a tri-weekly CZ from Chicago to Emeryville while numerous Chicago-Denver, Denver-Salt Lake City, and Salt :ake City-Emeryville trains run at least daily or twice daily service.

[STrRedWolf]

Don't eliminate anything since that would betaking away traveling options for travelers along the routes to be eliminated in order to save a buck. Reduce all West Coast LD Trains to regional corridors, such as splitting up the CZ into three different sections, and still keep one tri-weekly LD train which covers the whole distance. For example, a tri-weekly CZ from Chicago to Emeryville while numerous Chicago-Denver, Denver-Salt Lake City, and Salt :ake City-Emeryville trains run at least daily or twice daily service.

Pair this up with a hotel for overnight stays if they're stuck having to leapfrog using the corridor trains. The hotels should be close to each station, so there's not much of a walk (a few blocks) back and forth, so you can catch the next leg of the trip.

[R36 Combine Coach]

Texas Eagle daily to STL (corridor service), three times weekly to LAX (Sunset through section to NOL could be
cut). The only major city to lose service would be Houston.

[mtuandrew]

Instead of cutting parts of the Sunset Limited, let’s just cut the entire thing. The Texas Eagle can stay as a daily CHI-ELP train (extended to hit the very end of Texas), but everything else goes.

[Gilbert B Norman]

Sounds crazy, but whacking the Sunset seems an analogous "slap in the face" to the fastest growing region in the US, as to I who can't go over to the Salzburg Festival this August for a "fix" of classical music (the EU "won't let us in")

The region will survive, as will I.

[David Benton]

I'd just create Ambus if I was going to cut to a great extent.

[Tadman]

The Sunset Texas Eagle is the perfect example of Amtrak running a 1920 business model on a 1920 map. It makes negative sense in 2020. Not only does it not serve active and growing markets, but it uses resources that should be serving those markets and creates bad relations with host roads.

The Sunset Eagle "serves" some of the biggest markets in the USA. Chicago, Dallas, San Antonio, Houston, Phoenix, and LA are 2, 3, 4, 5, 7, 9th largest cities in the US. You also have waning river cities Saint Louis and New Orleans, and mid-size Tucson. But there are three clumps - midwest, texas, Southwest. For some reason we can't have reasonable regional service but we can have the dog of the long distance fleet connect them?

It's time to sink the Sunset into component parts.

LA-PHX-TUS corridor
One more STL corridor slot
Texas regionals
Maybe 1x NOLA-HOU

Two of these could be the next Amtrak success story - Texas Triangle and LA-Phoenix-Tucson. It's positively crazy that they didn't set this up in 1998 or 2005, with all the good press and ridership we see on Cascades or Surfliner. But instead we have the dog with fleas that "serves" most of the top ten cities in the US.

[rcthompson04]

Would it make sense to gut the Lake Shore Limited and the Capital Limited and replace with the following:

(1) Revive the Three Rivers, but extend to Boston with cars dropped at either Harrisburg or Philadelphia for DC.

(2) Run from Cleveland to Chicago on a truncated Lake Shore Limited.

(3) Have one or two Empire Service trains originate at Erie, PA every day.

If you wanted to get real stingy you could remove the Cardinal as well.

[Jeff Smith]

I think the idea of chopping up the Cardinal has been discussed before, but I can't recall which city pairs would serve a good corridor.

I also like Cleveland - Chicago as a corridor. To supplement that Philadelphia - Harrisburg - Pittsburgh - Cleveland seems like it would make sense as far as a "Three Rivers".

[bostontrainguy]

Maybe go to one big Florida train? Not sure about keeping the Palmetto and I don't know if you can eliminate the route via Columbia and run everything via Charleston. I'll leave those options open. But schedule one Florida train to allow good connections at NYP to Boston and north. Run it to Orlando and split it there. Half goes to Tampa and the other half to Miami. They terminate there. Run a separate coach train between Tampa and Miami.

[Jeff Smith]

To be clear, I think Silver Service is fine as it is now, but when Virgin opens in Orlando, it obviates the need for Miami service, especially off the Star / Tampa run. I understand the desire for no change in Jax, so keep the Meteor as is. Truncate the Star in Tampa. It's a 25 hour trip NYP - Tampa. Perhaps the 5 hour savings on equipment turns could be used to run the Star to Boston.

The Star and the inland SC routing? A waste because it serves SC in the middle of the night, and NC late evening. Why not route the Palmetto over that route, and adjust the Star's timetable so it's a distinct train vs. the Meteor, maybe leaving NYP in the early evening, getting to Tampa about the same.

[Jeff Smith]

Completely agree; the Sunset, my obvious first choice, is useless as a western LD.

The Sunset Texas Eagle is the perfect example of Amtrak running a 1920 business model on a 1920 map. It makes negative sense in 2020. Not only does it not serve active and growing markets, but it uses resources that should be serving those markets and creates bad relations with host roads.

The Sunset Eagle "serves" some of the biggest markets in the USA. Chicago, Dallas, San Antonio, Houston, Phoenix, and LA are 2, 3, 4, 5, 7, 9th largest cities in the US. You also have waning river cities Saint Louis and New Orleans, and mid-size Tucson. But there are three clumps - midwest, texas, Southwest. For some reason we can't have reasonable regional service but we can have the dog of the long distance fleet connect them?

It's time to sink the Sunset into component parts.

LA-PHX-TUS corridor
One more STL corridor slot
Texas regionals
Maybe 1x NOLA-HOU

Two of these could be the next Amtrak success story - Texas Triangle and LA-Phoenix-Tucson. It's positively crazy that they didn't set this up in 1998 or 2005, with all the good press and ridership we see on Cascades or Surfliner. But instead we have the dog with fleas that "serves" most of the top ten cities in the US.

[mtuandrew]

I think the idea of chopping up the Cardinal has been discussed before, but I can't recall which city pairs would serve a good corridor.

I’m personally thinking NYP-CHW (or at least WAS-CHW) on the eastern side, CHI-CIN on the west, and a bus bridge between. I recall both of those being a Palmetto-length journey on either end.

I also like Cleveland - Chicago as a corridor. To supplement that Philadelphia - Harrisburg - Pittsburgh - Cleveland seems like it would make sense as far as a "Three Rivers".

You could. I still think the Broadway Limited, scheduled 12 hours opposite the LSL, would be the missing link on NYP-CHI. Perhaps you could cut the Capitol Limited to Cleveland at the west end, and facilitate a transfer to either the Lake Shore Limited or the Broadway Limited.

[bostontrainguy]

Perhaps the 5 hour savings on equipment turns could be used to run the Star to Boston.

YES! Absolutely agree.