• Revisiting the Rainbow and Heritage Fleet

  • Discussion related to Amtrak also known as the National Railroad Passenger Corp.
Discussion related to Amtrak also known as the National Railroad Passenger Corp.

Moderators: GirlOnTheTrain, mtuandrew, Tadman

  by mtuandrew
 
STrRedWolf wrote: Fri Jul 03, 2020 7:23 am I wonder what else is out there in the Granite City "graveyard". Domes, any sleepers? Baggage cars? Is there a catalog? (*gets an idea*)
That’s... vague. Care to share with the class? :wink:
  by Backshophoss
 
This "graveyard is visable from a bridge on state route 203 in IL,yard is a flat switch away form a local steel mill in Granite City.
Have seen Domes El Cap cars and coaches,sleepers,etc. Some have tarps over the dome glass
State route 203 is one of the "Back Door" access route to Gateway National Speedway of NASCAR fame,not sure if there's a sidewalk on that bridge.
  by buccpoe7
 
That "graveyard" you are talking about belongs to Gateway Rail Car Services. And most of the rail cars are either stored for their customers, being renovated, or belong to Gateway. Go to Ozark Mountain Railcar to see what some of the passenger cars are and what they cost, When you see the location, if it says Il, that is the Gateway location
  by STrRedWolf
 
mtuandrew wrote: Fri Jul 03, 2020 5:41 pm That’s... vague. Care to share with the class? :wink:
I'm tempted to write another train travel novel, but this time having completely custom equipment. I'll still use my fictional band as the main protagonists.

Any more details... and I'd have to pimp the Patreon again.
  by mtuandrew
 
STrRedWolf wrote: Sat Jul 04, 2020 9:42 amlI'm tempted to write another train travel novel, but this time having completely custom equipment. I'll still use my fictional band as the main protagonists.

Any more details... and I'd have to pimp the Patreon again.
Well, you’d better choose equipment that will fit into NYP unless you don’t want your band to tour Madison Square Garden :wink:

Re: the Rainbow fleet, was the rule that cars did fit into NYP & NYG aside from domes, or was the rule that non-Penn Central cars did not fit without modifying their undercarriages?
  by MACTRAXX
 
mtuandrew wrote: Sat Jul 04, 2020 11:21 am
STrRedWolf wrote: Sat Jul 04, 2020 9:42 amlI'm tempted to write another train travel novel, but this time having completely custom equipment. I'll still use my fictional band as the main protagonists.

Any more details... and I'd have to pimp the Patreon again.
Well, you’d better choose equipment that will fit into NYP unless you don’t want your band to tour Madison Square Garden :wink:

Re: the Rainbow fleet, was the rule that cars did fit into NYP & NYG aside from domes, or was the rule that non-Penn Central cars did not fit without modifying their undercarriages?
MTUA: Cars that were excess height - such as dome cars - could not run into NYP. Remember that the height restriction was and is primarily for the height of the overhead catenary - not so much the tunnel itself.

Most single-level cars that Amtrak purchased from eastern railroads could run without problems into NYP. For western cars all it took was to check car diagrams to determine if there would be any clearance issues for operation on eastern long distance trains...MACTRAXX
  by STrRedWolf
 
I'm looking at three car designs, the sleepers being based off of the Bombardier Multilevel. I'm tempted to make a dome diner based on that car as well.
  by R Paul Carey
 
As to the question relating to clearance of foreign (non-PC) equipment to or through NYP, there were multiple variables to be considered for each, for which only a complete and current profile for each car (or lot of cars known to be identical) was required and was subject to exacting review. Some foreign equipment such as was operated in through service by PC (pre-Amtrak) to NYP with RF&P/SCL, for example, had long been cleared by PRR.

Limiting factors include the profiles of North River and East river tunnels, catenary, third rail, station platforms and other structures, plus civil prohibitions. Additional limitations could apply due to the overhang at the mid-ordinate of cars operated through turnouts or other curves, for which operation would be restricted to specifically designated tracks/routes.

Many cars were prohibited for failure to clear third rail due to arrangement of under-floor appliances such as A/C condensers. The steam-ejector cars of AT&SF were one such example, as I recall. Civil prohibitions included propane, which ruled-out all cars equipped with Waukesha Enginators.

The risk of operating non-cleared equipment was clear to all involved; the review was thorough - then as now.
  by gokeefe
 
I have noticed some examples of old cars where propane was used in the galleys. I would imagine this was excluded as well ...

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk

  by Gilbert B Norman
 
R Paul Carey wrote: Sun Jul 05, 2020 9:07 am Many cars were prohibited for failure to clear third rail due to arrangement of under-floor appliances such as A/C condensers. The steam-ejector cars of AT&SF were one such example, as I recall.
Mr. Carey, I would surmise that the several 1946-58 Transcontinental Pullman lines through Chicago thus avoided use of ATSF 10-6 "Pine--" cars. UP 10-6 "Pacific--" were in Penn; saw them assigned to peak season Florida trains.

Checking my Official Register, I note that both ATSF "Pines" and "Regals" were steam ejector, so I'm at a loss to know what Pullman used on those ATSF/NYC or PRR lines.
  by John_Perkowski
 
Gilbert B Norman wrote: Sun Jul 05, 2020 1:27 pmMr. Carey, I would surmise that the several 1946-58 Transcontinental Pullman lines through Chicago thus avoided use of ATSF 10-6 "Pine--" cars. UP 10-6 "Pacific--" were in Penn; saw them assigned to peak season Florida trains.

Checking my Official Register, I note that both ATSF "Pines" and "Regals" were steam ejector, so I'm at a loss to know what Pullman used on those ATSF/NYC or PRR lines.
In the summer of 1973 Mom and I came home from Kansas City on the SW Limited (it might have still been the Super then). We were early boards to the PC 10-6 TORONTO ISLANDS (it was built SCIOTO RAPIDS). It had come in on the National Limited.

As soon as it joined Train 4 it went hot. Now I know why... 3/4 were largely ATSF equipment with steam ejector a/c and 32v electrical lockers, TORONTO ISLANDS had electromechanical a/c and a 110v electrical locker.
  by R Paul Carey
 
Gil,

The UP "Pacific" 10-6 sleepers were equipped with electro-mechanical A/C as built and did not carry any clearance-limiting features, so far as I recall, and as such, were widely employed systemwide in the early Amtrak days. I cannot imagine any barriers to interline use of these cars in the pre-Amtrak days.

In my earlier post I described an exacting clearance process that was specific to either a number of identical cars by "lot", or by individual cars on a case-by-case basis. Placement of various underfloor appliances varied greatly, which revealed some exceptions that could pass clearance. Although I recall the AT&SF conventional fleet was predominantly SE equipped, I do believe they did have some EM equipped cars.

In the early-to-mid 1950's, when standards of service were still high, it would have been possible to include a steam-ejector equipped transcon sleeper - clearance details permitting - as the custom was then to provide continuous steam on the premier trains. This was the only way to furnish hot water in the cars. Steam was protected "12 Months" of the year.

By the time of PC, however, steam was protected for heating on a seasonal basis only, between the months of October and May, IIRC. Without steam through the late Spring/Summer months, passengers simply were not provided hot water for washing. By no small coincidence, there was practically no maintenance performed on hot water systems in those days.

In the early days, around early Summer 1973, IIRC, when Amtrak extended the Southern Crescent to Boston, the through portion of the train was Southern equipment, mostly steam ejector equipped in a manner that cleared NYP. I remember an arrival at South Station (possibly the first such run-through) one sultry evening with no steam and the passengers detraining in the manner of a swarm of angry hornets!

Nobody at HQ thought of protecting steam, and to the mechanical forces at Boston (mostly dedicated and highly skilled with NYNH&H seniority) the use of steam to produce AC was an entirely alien concept. Overnight, they heroically set up the returning power with four working boilers, observing a strong ejector vacuum developing on each of these cars. In short order, Southern replaced the SE with EM cars in through service.

As I know you can imagine, SE equipment (though reliable by its design) simply did not mesh in the network operation that Amtrak was becoming.

With best regards,

Paul.
  by Gilbert B Norman
 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fNXFwQz4aOU

While I'm not about to "pony up" myself to see it again, in this movie "The Band Wagon", an opening scene depicts Fred Astaire alighting The Century at GCT. In the apparent on location scene and within The Century's consist, an ATSF 4-4-2 "Regal--" is seen.

It is always possible that just like in the movie "North by Northwest", Central assembled a consist of cars simply to film the movie at LaSalle St, but then why pay car hire simply to have a foreign car in the consist?

But all told, if that consist seen was authentic, then Central had no issue handling steam ejector cars into GCT.
  by STrRedWolf
 
R Paul Carey wrote: Sun Jul 05, 2020 9:07 am Civil prohibitions included propane, which ruled-out all cars equipped with Waukesha Enginators.
What would they be used for in each car? I could only guess heat + electrical as a self-contained hotel power generator.

As a side note, even though these are real, I had to chuckle at the name "Waukesha Enginators." I probably got the laugh out of that due to watching too much Gundam/Robotech anime.
  by R Paul Carey
 
As to the latest questions and observations, SE AC systems were simple and reliable, though "alien" on most eastern roads. Subject to applicable physical clearance, there was no reason a "foreign" SE sleeper couldn't have been handled, for example, on NYC 25/26. Such arrangements were entirely within the ordinary course of business when the management of this equipment was handled by the Pullman Company. On the other hand, however, I would take a minimal inference as to the location of any equipment, as seen in the Hitchcock Productions.

Waukesha Enginators - fueled by propane - were used for AC and on-board hotel power, in lieu of the more conventional genemotors.

The ban on propane through NYP was (and is) rigorously enforced. Any propane cylinder of any size must be removed as a condition of clearance to operate through NYP.