Railroad Forums 

  • Do Long-Distance trains need sleepers?

  • Discussion related to Amtrak also known as the National Railroad Passenger Corp.
Discussion related to Amtrak also known as the National Railroad Passenger Corp.

Moderators: GirlOnTheTrain, mtuandrew, Tadman

 #1544281  by mtuandrew
 
STrRedWolf wrote: Fri May 29, 2020 4:51 pm Looking at the Cafe menus... I saw that the Auto Train had a "Coach Cafe".

Wait, isn't the Auto Train an express overnight that's 90% sleeper and 10% dining? Why in hell does it have coach? The Auto Train would be perfect for slumbercoaches!
I dunno about that. I think Auto Train coach passengers are less likely to be singletons - if they’re well-heeled they get a Roomette, and if not well off, they probably aren’t taking the train.

I suspect coach passengers skew toward families. Trying to get a family of five to Disney, hate I-95, but you didn’t have the money for a bedroom suite and Harry Potter World? Load up the SUV, drive to Lorton, and get everyone their own Superliner coach seat. That right there is the perfect market for a 6-bed couchette. Not exceptionally spacious, not especially private, and it has no amenities, but it sleeps six people for cheap.
 #1544454  by wigwagfan
 
I have to wonder why the Coast Starlight needs sleepers; instead have two daytime trains north and south of a midpoint city, presumably either Sacramento, Emeryville (Oakland) or San Jose. Have an arrangement with a local hotel adjacent to or very close to the station for continuing passengers to have a guaranteed room.

After all, in SP days there were no through trains...
 #1544466  by Gilbert B Norman
 
Largely agree, Mr. Halstead.

However, the Shasta Daylight, which I rode during '62, was the weaker of the two then over the route.

I think the other option of resuming the "Coast Daylight", which only need be Coach and Business, and returning the "Cascade" (new name as that is now a fleet name) with Sleepers and with a Martinez San Joaquin connection seems more of a "what Amtrak is all about" option. The idea of "overnighting" passengers, absent a lengthy delay, is getting into the tourist excursion business, and with the de-emphasis of the LD's leading to their elimination in their entirety, is where I believe the Board wants to go.

With the connection "broken", this could lead to the "Daylight" running the Peninsula with at 4th Street end point. That would be a first in the Amtrak-era; San Francisco served by a TRAIN.
 #1544473  by Alphaboi
 
Absent HSR I think a night train between LA/SD and the Bay Area would be alot more popular than a day train. There already are sleeper busses running between LA and SF.

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 #1544475  by mtuandrew
 
Alphaboi wrote: Mon Jun 01, 2020 9:34 am Absent HSR I think a night train between LA/SD and the Bay Area would be alot more popular than a day train. There already are sleeper busses running between LA and SF.

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See, there you go. An OAK-LAX train with 8p departure, 8a arrival, connections to the early trains to San Francisco (at San Jose), Sacramento (at Oakland) and San Bernardino & San Diego (at LAUS), and apologies to the in-between cities.

Business class would sell well there if there weren’t enough sleepers to go around, especially if rebranded as “Comfort Class” or some other buzzword and with complimentary pillow & blanket.

A true bar car would be even more popular.
 #1544481  by SouthernRailway
 
No train "needs" sleepers--and nobody actually "needs" anything other than a few boards lying on top of two sets of wheels--but since the Coast Starlight seems to do a pretty good volume of sleeping car business, why not provide them?
 #1544484  by Tadman
 
wigwagfan wrote: Sun May 31, 2020 11:41 pm I have to wonder why the Coast Starlight needs sleepers; instead have two daytime trains north and south of a midpoint city, presumably either Sacramento, Emeryville (Oakland) or San Jose. Have an arrangement with a local hotel adjacent to or very close to the station for continuing passengers to have a guaranteed room.

After all, in SP days there were no through trains...
I've thought this for a long time. Sleeper or not, why is it one train? In SP days, you had two trains, plus a GN/UP train north of Portland. Right now, if something goes wrong in Olympia, things cascade to a really bad place in Oakland and even worse in LA.

I have long said the slot north of Portland should be for another Cascade. I agree that the operation should also be an Oakland-LA run and a Oakland-Portland run. Even if you have to call it "one train" with a overnight layover in Oakland for PRIIA purposes.
 #1544502  by Gilbert B Norman
 
As both Messrs. Dunville and Halstead note, the "Starlight" is an Amtrak invention.

The Incorporators called for, in the "Basic System", a Seattle-San Diego train. No mention of San Francisco. From that #11-12 and #13-14 were born (remember, no North or South on the SP). The through LA was a quick "casualty" - "Basic System" or not.

Lest we forget, an overnight LAX-OAK has been tried in the Amtrak era - and it flopped. The market that was there as late as the early '60's, was gone by the '80's. These private sector Sleeper busses look like some kind of "niche play" - and who knows if they will be around in a post-COVID world.

Post-COVID, the Federal government is going to be as bankrupt as it was during '45 (another round of "Stimulus Goodies" are on the way). National Debt could well exceed 100% of GNP.

On that note, let's have publicly funded passenger trains "be what it's all about". If Aunt Tillie in Wolf Point needs to see her Doctor in MPLS, that is what "bridge" , i.e. not forever, subdidized bus routes are for. Biggest problem is too much of that, and Aunt Willimenah in Miles City will want "her train" as well.
 #1544503  by bdawe
 
Gilbert B Norman wrote: Mon Jun 01, 2020 2:00 pmLest we forget, an overnight LAX-OAK has been tried in the Amtrak era - and it flopped. The market that was there as late as the early '60's, was gone by the '80's. These private sector Sleeper busses look like some kind of "niche play" - and who knows if they will be around in a post-COVID world.

Did the Spirit of California really flop, or did it do more-or-less as well a any-other state-supported corridor and happened to draw up unlucky politically?
Last edited by John_Perkowski on Tue Jun 02, 2020 8:11 pm, edited 1 time in total. Reason: Per request of quoted person.
 #1544592  by Greg Moore
 
No Sleeper on the Coast Starlight would have killed my trip last year because... "Amtrak is more than endpoints"
Boarding at LAU, getting off in San Fran, schlepping my baggage to a hotel for the night, then back the next morning and then riding up to Klamath Falls would have been a non-starter.

Now, want to do day trains from LAU-San Fran and a separate one to San Fran to Seattle, sure.
But yeah, overnight trains with sleepers have a use.