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  • Should Amtrak have considered new Motivepower 5400 HP Locomotive?

  • Discussion related to Amtrak also known as the National Railroad Passenger Corp.
Discussion related to Amtrak also known as the National Railroad Passenger Corp.

Moderators: GirlOnTheTrain, mtuandrew, Tadman

 #1543724  by MattW
 
The idea of a single unified fleet is certainly nice, has lots of advantages, but is it absolutely necessary? I don't mean from Amtrak's point of view, I know they'll say yes. But why not have different units for different purposes? ALC-42 for northeastern service, MP54Ac for the heavier trains across the rest of the country? I don't know of too many railroads that have truly uniform fleets. Different equipment is for different purposes.
 #1543821  by Tadman
 
MattW wrote: Sun May 24, 2020 10:27 pm The idea of a single unified fleet is certainly nice, has lots of advantages, but is it absolutely necessary? I don't mean from Amtrak's point of view, I know they'll say yes. But why not have different units for different purposes? ALC-42 for northeastern service, MP54Ac for the heavier trains across the rest of the country? I don't know of too many railroads that have truly uniform fleets. Different equipment is for different purposes.
It's not necessary and virtually impossible. Everybody loves the idea because Ryanair and Southwest do it. But I can't name any railroad other than some of the really small (IE 3 trainsets) carriers that have a homogeneous fleet.

Given that most major passenger carriers receive quite a bit of federal funding, and 3/4 of them are in the Northeast Corridor, it would be interesting if FRA/DOT sat down with the carriers and came up with a cohesive plan. This plan might include designating certain shops as centers of excellence for common makes/models of equipment. That way equipment that is considered orphan on one carrier but common on a nearby carrier could be contract maintained at a place that is familiar with the model and stocks parts.

For example, CtDot has perhaps four Genesis. It's an orphan carrier. But Amtrak has hundreds, and maintenance at Albany makes good sense. If MBTA were to run electric trains on the Providence line, rather than building an electric shop, they could have Amtrak maintain a small group of ACS or MTA maintain a small group of M8's.
 #1543826  by bostontrainguy
 
Wasn't the old idea that we should buy a bunch from EMD and a bunch from GE? In that way we support two rivals who will provide competitiveness in innovation and pricing. If there were only one locomotive maker left, they would have us over a barrel and charge whatever they wanted.
 #1543830  by mtuandrew
 
bostontrainguy wrote: Tue May 26, 2020 9:44 am Wasn't the old idea that we should buy a bunch from EMD and a bunch from GE? In that way we support two rivals who will provide competitiveness in innovation and pricing. If there were only one locomotive maker left, they would have us over a barrel and charge whatever they wanted.
That’s about right, and Amtrak has done a fair job of getting their fleet from different builders. At first mainly EMD with GE outliers, then the great switch in about 2000 to a mainly GE fleet with EMD outliers. It’s the case today too, even though Siemens is getting the vast majority of Amtrak orders, Alstom is building the Acela. As of yet we don’t know who is getting the Amtrak/MTA order, and the replacement P32BWH order (if/when that happens) will go to someone else entirely.

I wish the HSP-46 hadn’t turned out so poorly, because it would look right at home leading an Amtrak LD. On the other hand, I understand the MP54 to be a particularly thirsty locomotive - not good for long distances.
 #1548973  by dowlingm
 
GO Transit had MP40s with EMD 710s with separate Cat HEP so about 5200 “Total” hp but then Tier 4 happened. The original plan was QSK95 but something happened and that got binned in favour of 2 x QSK60, losing the HEP motor. Loco 647 was sent back and retro-ed with the two engines and a modified cooling arrangement, but retaining DC motors. It spent a long time in Boise and a very long time out of service back in Toronto, followed by a long period where it was only seen with a second loco. The production units followed with AC motors (and designated MP40-T4AC or something rather than MP54AC) but previously mooted retrofits of other 710 units seem to have been deemed “not properly vetted” as they say at Metrolinx these days.

Should be noted that VIA Rail has plenty of opportunity to observe GO’s MPI gear in Willowbrook Yard across from VIA TMC, and whose services operates in a speed range close to what an MPI unit can manage and they went with Siemens (albeit that they opted to write their tender to specify trainsets which would have required MPI to find a dance partner)
 #1549006  by scratchyX1
 
rcthompson04 wrote: Wed Jul 29, 2020 7:08 am While I am sure there are benefits for fleet standardization, there are also benefits of having some diversity in your fleet. You wouldn't want your whole fleet to be out if a defect was discovered and they all had to be pulled at once.
Like Southwest found, the hard way
 #1549082  by STrRedWolf
 
The message here is that too much diversity among equipment is bad, but too little is also bad. Amtrak was able to overcome the issues with the HHP-8's on the Acelas... but replacing them with older equipment before replacing them with the AEM-7s.
 #1549083  by rcthompson04
 
Tadman wrote: Thu Jul 30, 2020 8:57 am Amtrak has been bitten by that problem as well, the cracks in Acela brakes and Gennie trucks were tough to get around.
I am thinking of the Silverliner Vs with SEPTA. They were a third of the fleet and caused chaos when they were pulled out of service for several months. That is also a lesson in don't think you need a customized solution.
 #1549088  by Tadman
 
RE the customized solutions, this is a really good point. My mind keeps going back to the tiny fleet of dual mode diesels for empire service. What happens if a defect or latent problem is found in these? Also, per my post a few months ago about Amtrak using an SD70 variant off-corridor, it would've been a lot easier to fix a cracked truck fleet-wide if (a) it was on a proven truck; (b) there were thousands of trucks laying around (c) a supply chain that is already making new trucks that could add a shift and make 50 more this month.