Railroad Forums 

  • Hitachi Class 802s adapted for Amtrak

  • Discussion related to Amtrak also known as the National Railroad Passenger Corp.
Discussion related to Amtrak also known as the National Railroad Passenger Corp.

Moderators: GirlOnTheTrain, mtuandrew, Tadman

 #1522428  by njtmnrrbuff
 
DMUs would work great on various smaller state sponsored corridors like the NHV-SPG-Greenfield shuttles. It probably makes sense for Amtrak to just stick with locomotive hauled equipment, especially if those Chargers have great acceleration. People, Amtrak is strongly considering getting Chargers that can run on both catenary and diesel power and this will be great for the Virginia extensions of NE Regional trains and other trains continuing south of DC, the Pennsylvanian, and the through Amtrak trains that head up the Springfield Line and beyond.
 #1522432  by mtuandrew
 
njt/mnrrbuff wrote: Sun Oct 13, 2019 7:09 pm DMUs would work great on various smaller state sponsored corridors like the NHV-SPG-Greenfield shuttles. It probably makes sense for Amtrak to just stick with locomotive hauled equipment, especially if those Chargers have great acceleration. People, Amtrak is strongly considering getting Chargers that can run on both catenary and diesel power and this will be great for the Virginia extensions of NE Regional trains and other trains continuing south of DC, the Pennsylvanian, and the through Amtrak trains that head up the Springfield Line and beyond.
Had heard Chargers with 3rd rail/diesel, not with catenary/diesel. Source?
 #1522439  by nyc440
 
New York Central's dwell time, for electric/steam-Diesel change, at Harmon and North White Plains was < three minutes, no? That included steam-heat plumbing.
Bill
 #1522444  by Backshophoss
 
The only known Dual-mode charger is the 4 party Amtrak/MN/ConnDOT/LIRR order and that is for 660VDC 3rd rail.
The "energy storage module" is the current R & D Hangup.
 #1522453  by njtmnrrbuff
 
In terms of confirming what I mentioned about the dual powered diesel/catenary engine, search Amtrak Five Year Equipment Asset Line Plan for 2019-2024. Next, if there is a such link that goes with that which there should be, click on it and then scroll to the third page of the document. On the third page which has a heading of strategy, it will be sentence 5. We can infer from that statement that the train routes that I just mentioned will benefit from those a lot.

Yes, Amtrak is in the process of finding a Charger that can run on both diesel and third rail power that will replace the P32AC-DMs. MNR and CDOT are looking at getting them as well, but I think mainly for the trains that operate into and out of GCT.
 #1522469  by Tadman
 
It's worth noting that the 802 is NOT a British design. The platform has seen success in 10+ countries around the world, including Japan, China, UK, Taiwan, and Korea. It is highly modular and has been used for commuter and express trains and even monorails.

The notion that such a design in the US would have to be a carbon of the GWR fleet is not necessary. Their loading gauge is smaller than the CTA, and the modularity of the platform means that a US-based version would not need this loading gauge.

Given the far larger template even in NYP, perhaps a roof-based radiator isn't the worst ideas.
Backshophoss wrote: Sun Oct 13, 2019 6:04 pm Amtrak has a short history of RDC use,and a not to great run of the SPV-2000's.
That was Amtrak's fault, pure and simple. The RDC is absolutely a successful design and saw hundreds built and some still in use. The SPV was a disaster of Amtrak's making due to the aftermarket mods to depower an axle in order to fudge the "weight on drivers" number below the fireman requirement. Play stupid games, win stupid prizes.
 #1522472  by Gilbert B Norman
 
nyc440 wrote: Sun Oct 13, 2019 8:52 pm New York Central's dwell time, for electric/steam-Diesel change, at Harmon and North White Plains was < three minutes, no? That included steam-heat plumbing.
First, welcome aboard, Mr. NYC

Wholly agree; three or four, all told much faster than Amtrak, who seems to need half hour for same. Ditto for the New Haven as well at its several engine change points (account the curve; longer than four at Danbury).

But lest we forget, "it's a little bit different today". HEP lines take longer than steam; and I will defer to those around here active in the industry today for further explanation.
 #1522484  by DutchRailnut
 
today's blue light laws add safety but cost time , the blue lights need to be applied several times during a engine change and its not just hanging a flag on engine, but calling tower or dispatcher to remove access to track and log any blue lights.
 #1522494  by mtuandrew
 
DutchRailnut wrote: Mon Oct 14, 2019 3:31 pm today's blue light laws add safety but cost time , the blue lights need to be applied several times during a engine change and its not just hanging a flag on engine, but calling tower or dispatcher to remove access to track and log any blue lights.
Can you walk us through an engine change procedure? It’s not like us foamers have done one before :P
 #1522496  by DutchRailnut
 
ok train comes in , before cutting the engine off sufficient hand brakes needs to be applied to cars , foreman has to call in for blue light or car inspectors and electrician can not go on under or between equipment (physical blue light/flag needs to be applied at operating location of engine) , tower operator or Dispatcher has to log event in blue light record and lock access to effected track .

once jumpers are pulled and air connections shut/secured foreman has to cancel blue light, and remove physical blue light/flag , tower operator has to log event in blue light record and restore access to effected track. once track is back to normal the arriving engine can leave the train.

new engine gets switched onto train , foreman has to call in for new blue light, tower operator/dispatcher has to log event and remove access to effected track (physical blue light/flag needs to be applied at operating location of engine)

electricians hook up HEP cables and MU/door control jumpers, car inspector hooks up air. hep can only be activated by either the crafts/foreman or blue light needs to be removed. car inspector commences with brake test after releasing hand brakes, watching brake application on rear of train . foreman once everything is completed has to call tower operator or Dispatcher to release blue light , event has to be logged in Blue light record and dispatcher can now release lock on the track . at this time Conductor gets his authority back and train can leave at his signal .
 #1522497  by Return to Reading Company Olney Sta
 
Gilbert B Norman wrote: Mon Oct 14, 2019 12:58 pm
nyc440 wrote: Sun Oct 13, 2019 8:52 pm New York Central's dwell time, for electric/steam-Diesel change, at Harmon and North White Plains was < three minutes, no? That included steam-heat plumbing.
First, welcome aboard, Mr. NYC

Wholly agree; three or four, all told much faster than Amtrak, who seems to need half hour for same. Ditto for the New Haven as well at its several engine change points (account the curve; longer than four at Danbury).

But lest we forget, "it's a little bit different today". HEP lines take longer than steam; and I will defer to those around here active in the industry today for further explanation.
Likewise at South Amboy NJ on the NY&LB ("North Jersey Coast Line"). Rush hour engine changes continued as recently as 1988 until electrification was extended to Long Branch.
 #1522498  by DutchRailnut
 
in old days engine switch involved a verbal blue light, you told engineer to not move cause if you do and I survive I will kill you with Fr**gin wrench.
after entire switch you went up to him with big grin and told hem ok the choo choo is your now.
 #1522505  by njtmnrrbuff
 
RDCs were used on the New Haven to Springfield shuttles for a short time as well as SPVs. CDOT owned SPVs covered MNR operations on the Waterbury Branch. The RDCs and SPVs didn't last too long.
 #1522517  by mtuandrew
 
Thanks, Dutch! That is actually a lot more steps than I thought, and more labor intensive too.

—————

Your description of the modern era (not the Big F’n Wrench verbal era :P ) makes me wonder:

-why doesn’t Amtrak (NJT, MNRR, LIRR, etc) invest in automatic couplers for its regular coaches? I know some lines do use pin-cup and other forms of fully-automatic system that mate air, MU, and HEP cables at the same time, especially on MUs. I’ve seen Janney-style knuckle couplers that do the same power connections, though a carman does still need to pull the pin and reset the knuckle.

-how much time could Amtrak shave by running a cab car on the front of NEC trains (assuming they show up eventually), coupling a diesel ahead of that when leaving electric territory, and only then putting on blue light protection and cutting off the motor?