• Electrification for Trolley Museum of New York (Kingston)

  • General discussion related to all railroad clubs, museums, tourist and scenic lines. Generally this covers museums with static displays, museums that operate excursions, scenic lines that have museums, and so on. Check out the Tourist Railway Association (TRAIN) for more information.
General discussion related to all railroad clubs, museums, tourist and scenic lines. Generally this covers museums with static displays, museums that operate excursions, scenic lines that have museums, and so on. Check out the Tourist Railway Association (TRAIN) for more information.

Moderators: Miketherailfan, rob216

  by Schaffner
 
Their website has information from a few years ago on a proposal. Is there any plans for electrification soon? From the photos I've seen in the Ulster & Delaware book that was published a few years back, it seems they have a very scenic piece of track there, it would be nice if they could get it under wire.
  by n2xjk
 
Electrification at TMNY has been a hard hurdle to cross for a number of reasons. The same location that blesses TMNY with waterfront scenery, a historic district and tourists also bristles with underground utilities, especially gas pipelines. Therefore TMNY couldn't 'just string some wire' without meeting the costly requirements for safeguarding the gas lines. In 2006, the City of Kingston on the museum's behalf, commissioned a $50,000 engineering study to design and cost out the electrification project. HDR was chosen for the study and the final report was delivered in 2008. HDR's estimate for the project, including track upgrades, overhead, 12-pulse rectifier substation, and completely restoring trolley B&QT 8361 (a double end Peter Witt) is $7.1M. So, TMNY has a little bit of money to raise! TMNY still has no endowment or other long-term means to sustain the current operation (including staff salary), so that will continue to be the focus of our own fundraising near-term. TMNY has the attention of our US representatives, has applied for stimulus monies and Kawasaki is looking at Kingston for a battery LRV test site, so if any of these sprout money we'll finally be able to make some big progress.
Last edited by n2xjk on Tue Apr 14, 2009 9:20 am, edited 1 time in total.
  by Otto Vondrak
 
n2xjk wrote:Electrification at TMNY has been a hard hurdle to cross for a number of reasons. The same location that blesses TMNY with waterfront scenery, a historic district and tourists also bristles with underground utilities, especially gas pipelines. Therefore TMNY couldn't 'just string some wire' without meeting the costly requirements for safeguarding the gas lines.
Just curious, why is it so costly to set poles and string wire? What kinds of safeguards are we talking about? Would you have to pay to relocate utilities?

-otto-
  by n2xjk
 
The current that leaks from the rail into the earth has to be minimized. With lots of our old track being in direct contact with dirt, bricks, pavement, etc, that means lots of our track will need to be rebuilt. All the grade crossings and in-street rail needs to be redone with neoprene boots around the rail.
  by n2xjk
 
Below is the entire cost sheet from the report. This is based on prevailing wages and costs, so the actual price when shovel hits dirt may vary, hopefully downward with volunteers, in-kind services and donations factored in. Items in the estimate specific to avoiding stray current (i.e., protection of the gas lines) are the parallel feeders, cathodic protection and track reconstruction. These alone add up to $1.9M.
Image
  by Otto Vondrak
 
Thanks for posting the figures, it helps to see the costs broken down.

Do you guys still have the spool of contact wire donated by Metro-North a few years back?
  by n2xjk
 
There is a spool of 4/O grooved that TMNY purchased several years ago. I don't remember if it came from Metro North or not. This is the museum-owned contact wire eluded to in the estimate. There's also a spool of OO that TMNY has had forever.
  by Andrew
 
This is The Kingston Trolley Museum I presume you are talking about.I hope that the Overhead wires can be put up soon.The run out to Kingston point may be somewha tricky but is definetly worth a try.
  by n2xjk
 
Yes, this is the trolley museum in Kingston, http://tmny.org. An $800,000 federal earmark is currently in the draft 2010 Transportation, Housing and Urban Development appropriation, so if this makes it through the hurdles, it will be the largest grant the museum will have received in its history. It remains to be seen if any of the $800,000 will go to electrification per se, but we expect some portion of the existing track will be updated to LRV standards as a prelude to eventual electrification.
  by Andrew
 
That is really great news.My Friend has an R-16 NYC Subway car up there and goes up there often to fix it up and ready it for use.I go up there as well.

The tracks out to Kingston Point really need a major overhaul.Last Autumn,I found many areas of track that needed to be replaced.

What would truly be Great would be for Kingston Point to return to its Glory days in the 1800's.That was The Coney Island of Upstate NY.
  by Disney Guy
 
With properly bonded track and a negative feeder cable, is there still current leakage into the ground?
  by n2xjk
 
Yes, if rail is in contact with any soil, pavement, brick, concrete, etc, there will be a non-zero current.
  by Noel Weaver
 
Not to put a damper on this but I think the cost is way too high and I also think there are better ways for the governments
involved to spend funds.
Sorry but this is the way I feel.
Noel Weaver
  by Otto Vondrak
 
Noel Weaver wrote:Not to put a damper on this but I think the cost is way too high
The TMNY cost estimates are based on using contract labor exclusively.
  by n2xjk
 
The previously mentioned federal earmark for track upgrades was indeed in the final version of the federal Transportation, Housing and Urban Development bill approved by the House and Senate this past week. The only modification was a slight decrease to $779,200. Again, too soon to say if this will actually put up some energized wire, but TMNY certainly looks forward to the needed track upgrades.