Railroad Forums 

  • Are we seeing the demise of steam tourist lines?

  • General discussion related to all railroad clubs, museums, tourist and scenic lines. Generally this covers museums with static displays, museums that operate excursions, scenic lines that have museums, and so on. Check out the Tourist Railway Association (TRAIN) for more information.
General discussion related to all railroad clubs, museums, tourist and scenic lines. Generally this covers museums with static displays, museums that operate excursions, scenic lines that have museums, and so on. Check out the Tourist Railway Association (TRAIN) for more information.

Moderators: rob216, Miketherailfan

 #17613  by Hostler
 
The recent announcement by Steamtown in suspending their steam excursions due to high insurance costs may spell the end of many small tourist lines as well as all mainline steam. Even non-steam excursions could be affected as well. This is not the first time I have read about scenic lines or museums being affected by skyrocketing liability insurance costs. It tough enough that general operating and maintenance costs have risen, but this situation could be just the beginning of the end. What do you think?
 #20554  by sandpvrr
 
Hello All,
Although I am far from an expert on the subject of insurance, or more specifically railroad insurance, I can say this.
Steamtown's announcement on this quite frankly was a wake-up call to me, made me realize exactly how bad this problem is. (Incidently, pun intended, Steamtown's 2004 excursion program is back on track)
The first vicim of the higher insurance costs I can recall was the infamous 'Skunk Train'. Although I am not sure what the final outcome was, at one point the entire line was to be abandoned or at least mothballed due to lack of riders and higher costs.
There are of course bright spots on the horizon. Up here in Maine, the Belfast and Moosehead Lake Railroad (according to their website, the 6th oldest operating line in the country) will be running their swedish built steam locomotive, #1149 (formerly known as the 'Spirit of Unity').
Steam might be getting kicked, but it isn't beaten yet.
cya, Joey
Certified Steam Nut

 #20691  by Christian S.
 
The Sierra Railroad Company, which already owns the Golden Sunset Dinner Train and Railtown 1897 in California, bought out the California Western RR and the Yolo Shortline RR recently. All 4 railroads are continuing operations normally. :D

 #21328  by P2c3689
 
Steamtown with no steam ?

What ?

That's just silly.

Regards,
Trevor H.

 #21331  by P2c3689
 
The article I just read from their website said they are reducing trips outside the park's boundaries, not that they are quitting using steam altogether. They said they plan to have 3 running steam locomotives by the end of the summer.

Regards,
Trevor H.

 #22798  by gawlikfj
 
Steamtown claims the decision to cancel all mainline excursions is based upon the high cost of liability insurance premiums affecting steam powered rail operating on class 1 railroads. The real subterfuge is the inability of Steamtown to reach agreement with the Delaware-Lackawanna RR. & Lackawanna Rail Authority on a operating contract. The National Park Service is insisting on a hold harmless clause in their contract in the event of a derailment or other accident.
You can read more in the June Railpace Magazine.

 #22803  by gawlikfj
 
Steamtown says they will be operating steam within the railroad yard daily. They have only one steam locomotive operating,and it is restricted to the yard due to drivers which need truing.

 #23583  by route_rock
 
There were the key words" Mainline" I dont know how 261 gets er done but she does.Of course UP insures themselves basicly.The line I work on has no problems but we are a captive no connection to the outside world operation.In this sue happy world what did we expect? Your locomotive got cinders in my car I am going to sue.Or Yor whistle is too lud I am going to sue! or I am broke give me a reason too sue you cause you look like you have money! You want to see insurance rates drop?You want to se railroads not cringe when a fan comes near them? Then do what Billy Shakespear said to do "Kill all the lawyers!" Alas mainline steam I knew it well!

 #25341  by creeker
 
B&ML is running there steamer? Will it be this year?

-Eric
 #25430  by bml1149
 
Yes, the B&ML will be running their steam engine this year. Startup is June 19 and it will run pretty much on weekends until October.
L.F.

 #25579  by creeker
 
Thanks and it will be running from Unity to Belfast right?

-Eric
 #25757  by bml1149
 
The steam engine will run from Unity to Burnham Jct. This has been its primary route since it was purchased. It has run to Belfast only about 3 times.
L.F.

 #56144  by Schuylkill Valley
 
Well I guess , Steamtown will have to change its name to Dieseltown or Trollyville NHS.
Its real bad when the feds can`t aford the money for their insurence .

Len.
 #62185  by plantanplan
 
It seems this liability issue is turning into a big demon, not only for steam engines, but for tourist railroads in general. I am trying to find out, if any tourist railroad (or even some smaller commuter rail systems) are running on same tracks with any of the Class I railroads? They seem to require the "Amtrak" liability insurance of 200 million (or even more) to do this, which makes it impossible for any smaller scale passenger operation to operate. And regarding the same issue, has any of you heard of any states setting up some legislation to put upper limits for the passenger liability? This is one potential way of reducing the liability premium burden.

 #64704  by james1787
 
My wife and I just took a ride on the New Hope and Ivyland RR. Pulling those nice old Pullmans was a nice 2-8-0 steamer, alive and well. I'm not sure what liability costs are to run the tourist operation there, but things seem to be well there. I must say, it was a blast to have the cinders coming in the open windows rolling down the scenic Bucks County landscape. My wife and I had a great time today.