Railroad Forums 

  • What's the deal with train shows these days?

  • Discussion related to everything about model railroading, from layout design and planning, to reviews of related model tools and equipment. Discussion includes O, S, HO, N and Z, as well as narrow gauge topics. Also includes discussion of traditional "toy train" and "collector" topics such as Lionel, American Flyer, Marx, and others. Also includes discussion of outdoor garden railways and live steamers.
Discussion related to everything about model railroading, from layout design and planning, to reviews of related model tools and equipment. Discussion includes O, S, HO, N and Z, as well as narrow gauge topics. Also includes discussion of traditional "toy train" and "collector" topics such as Lionel, American Flyer, Marx, and others. Also includes discussion of outdoor garden railways and live steamers.

Moderators: 3rdrail, stilson4283, Otto Vondrak

 #1085225  by Montrealrail
 
here in Montral,we have few model trains shows,we used to get the MRMA Canada-Central open house,2 times a year,but it's now over cause the club is now closed and searching for a new local..
andd we have another show,twice a year too,it's Expo-Modelist event,that regrouping all kind of modeling,like die cast,planes,boats and trains,but always 2 or 3 layouts are in operation,usualy,we have a G scale layout,a Lionel Layout and a Lego train layout and many model sellers..and since 2 year,I see a kit of 3 CN heavyweight cars,painted with the wet noodle for 90$,and the guy who have it,never want to make a bargain,it's been 5 times I have a try to bargain them and nothing to do

And starting this week-end,we have an old trains exibition at Sun Youth local in Montreal,this exxibition was going on in the early 90" and have stopped for few yaers and they start back next week-end for an exibition..if it's the same like in the past,we will have N scale,HO scale and more in layout operations,we will have lot of sellers all around,that place have 2 floors and I just hope they will do like before and use both floors,I remember in 1993,I was 18 and I buyed my first HO train set,that I still have today,and it still work great,I run it sometime on my layout,It's a CN F unit,the shelt is from Life-Like,but it fitted on a Atheran F unit bottom frame,3 Box cars,One Proto1000 and two Athearn Blue box and the CN caboose,also from Atheran BB series,I got that set for only 15$,that's why I buyed it,cause the low price,and I get the track and power pack set for 5$,it was a 18" radius curve and 6 9" straigt sections and a Life-Like power pack

Actually the entrance fare is alway's turning around 8$ for every places and it's usualy on two days,most of the time,you can go in the first day and pay the fare,and come back for free the day after,but a lot of peopples who come in the second day,prefer to pay again to make a better supporting ,myself,I use to pay for the second day..for sure,I want them come back to do another show..
 #1108279  by jmp883
 
I agree, train shows aren't what they used to be. I remember several train shows I used to attend back in the 80's that were excellent. They were a mix of private vendors and local hobby shops and they covered all scales. I was always able to find great deals on everything from locomotives to scenery supplies. I could also usually find some really great 'relics', usually pretty fairly priced. And then there was the people factor. The people at the tables, whether a private vendor or a hobby shop employee, was usually more than helpful if you had a question or two. Of course the people attending the show were just as much a resource as the people behind the tables.

The last show I went to had to be in the very late 1990's or early 2000's and it was almost all tinplate-only. What few scale items were there were brand-new, sealed-box items at prices that would make me go to my local hobby shop for the better deal. Finding 'relics' was almost impossible.

I guess I'm not surprised by this. Between Craigslist, eBay, and other online sales/auction sites you can find almost anything you want, or need. Why drive x-number of miles to a show, with no guarantee you'll find anything you want, when you can just sit in front of your computer and search online? I understand the logic but I don't agree with it. I like the interaction you get at a show. Even at shows where I didn't buy anything I always came away with some new tip, trick, or method to try on my own layout. TImes have changed....
 #1109173  by mtoney
 
One also has to look at who is putting on the show and what crowd of people they are trying to entice to attend. Take the Great Train Expo that has shows all over the country, its geared mainily toward the family, one with money however. The trains I saw at the Indianapolis show this past month, were mainly starter sets, low doller freight cars for way to high of a price, Lionel/other 3 rail stuff and one dealer selling very high end HO scale brass. My friend and I didnt really buy anything. That show was very lighly attended and didnt appear that much was selling. Costs was $5 to park(held at state fair grounds) and $7 for adults to get in, I believe under 12 was free. Now yesterday the same friend and I attended the small NMRA show in Danville, Indiana. It was a great show in all sense of the word. Good prices, lots of bargains to be had. While there wasnt a line to get in, helped that it was free admission and free parking, the show was totaly packed within 1 hour of the advertised opening at 10am. There was only a couple small dealers with 3rail trains and it was vintage Lionel from what looked like thier personal collection. Lots of tables full of vintage HO trains from estates, brass at several tables, lots of N scale. Several layouts from Z, N, HOn3, HO and larger, including a G scale live steam only layout. My friend and I both bought several things. I got an HO scale Hallmark brass FM H12-44 switcher, boxed for $60, a beat up but fixable Tenshodo brass 0-8-0 for $20 and a scratchbuilt old style grainery, beautifully weathered for $14. Seen several more items I wanted but alas my wallet was empty. This is one of 2 shows the CID division puts on, next one is in Noblesville, IN just after holidays are over. It is also a good show IMHO. The last several large shows I have attended left me feeling like I wasted money coming in the door, either high prices, arrogant dealers or lack of selection. Give your local NMRA shows a try, they seem to try and cater to the modeling crowd and less to the toy train crowd. They also hold clinics on various model railroad activities that can be helpfull to attend while at the show. I am an old school modeler, love brass engines to tinker with and paint, craftsman freight car kits to build and other older train items in HO scale. While ebay, craigslist(not so much localy) have put a dent in show quality, atleast here the smaller shows seem to get the small dealers with one or two tables of trains from a late modelers estate they are selling. That is where my brass came from, a widow is having a gentleman slowly dispose of her late husbands collection. The gentleman used to work for a well know brass importer and know the "true" market for brass and not the overinflated ebay or past glory day prices. His prices are always fair, $180 for unpainted Overland GP35 low nose diesels, $20 for a Tenshodo SD9 that needed a repaint and overhaul ect. His whole table was full of relecs, Mantua Brass freight cars, quality craft kits that were built ect. I ran out of $$ before I ran out of trains to buy. It takes time, but there is usualy 1 or 2 good shows within an hour or 2 drive, this one was about an hour and a half from home for us. But we also did some railfanning and stopped at a hobby shop on the way home to browse and pick up decals that I needed for my wife's xmas present (Alco Models C&O RSD7!) P.S. there was several large tables of N scale for sale, to small for me! Mike
 #1109205  by CNJ999
 
Once again, Mike, the drastic difference in interest in scale model trains and HO model railroading between the coasts and the Midwest are exemplified by the content of your post. In my experience there hasn't been a really good scale train show in the northeast like the one you describe in many years. Virtually all the remaining shows (and they are far fewer than they used to be), including in my opinion the revered West Springfield show, are tin-plate Lionel heavy, if not totally dominated by it, with dealers asking outrageous prices. Yes, West Springfield does include a lot of HO, but it is decidedly secondary to the tin-plate trains. And NMRA Division shows? I think there are occasional ones held in Boston, about 200 miles from me, but short of that I'm unaware of any held in the region. Certainly none of the local Divisions around here hold such shows.

I haven't personally attended what I would regard as a truly great scale oriented train show, like the smaller one you describe in your post, since some of those (on a much larger scale) in Timonium, MD, back in the early 1990's, before they too started admitting hordes of Lionel dealers! The "hobby" seen in the Midwest is, I'm sad to say, worlds apart from what most of us see on the east coast, which is much more in line with the Great Train Expo experience you talked about.

CNJ999
 #1109264  by Desertdweller
 
CNJ999,

I miss the train shows, too.

Out here in Western Nebraska, we have one train show a year, in North Platte. It is held in conjunction with Railfest, an annual UP expo. As far as a model train show for buyers, it has been getting smaller since about 2005. Down to a couple dealers now, plus a little tinplate. I support the dealers by buying each year, but there is almost nothing offered in my scale (N).

There are shows in the Denver area this time of year, but travel can be iffy.

I think I am the only one saying this, but I think this is kind of a bad time of year to have Model Railroad Month. I can see the logic
of promoting an indoor hobby with winter coming on, and getting the public fired up for buying trains. But for model railroaders who want to buy equipment for themselves, it is a very poor time. The Christmas Season means buying presents for the family, travel, big meal expenses. Not a good time for Grandpa or Daddy to be spending big bucks on himself.

My LHS carries few items I can use. I generally buy from Walthers, or from my default LHS in Denver (Caboose Hobbies).

Les
 #1109318  by umtrr-author
 
November is a reasonable choice for Model Railroad Month, if only by default...

- In December, there's too much focus on Everything Else around the Holidays.
- In January, there is the Financial Hangover from the Holidays (at least from my perspective)
- In February, there's no money
- In March and April, Spring is in the air, as is Tax Season
- In May, people in much of the country are already golfing!

I won't even get started with the promise unfulfilled of the "World's Greatest Hobby" promotion... and I say that as a former Ambassador.

Meanwhile, one of the train shows I've attended so far this year took a larger share of the budget than I'd expected. It was still primarily a social event, but everyone in our little group left with something.
 #1109326  by Desertdweller
 
November is a logical choice for the reasons given. It just comes at a financially awkward time of year.

It seems a lot of people tend to think of model railroading as a cold-weather hobby, or something to be indulged in only around the Christmas Season. Maybe it is because first exposure to the hobby came as a Christmas gift in childhood.

But as evidenced by this forum, model railroading is a year-round activity. A lot of nice new products hit the market in November, but us model railroaders are active year-round. I would like to see some train shows in May.

When those hot days of summer come, a cool basement looks pretty inviting.

Les
 #1199363  by scharnhorst
 
I've seen a few of changes at some shows besides a bit of a rise in entrance fees at the door and a few more people selling some nonrailroad related items times are a changing. I'm taking a brake from shows my self and am viewing over what I want to keep and maybe part with my self.
 #1202470  by jscola30
 
I attended train shows in the mid to late 90s and early 2000s as a middle schooler-early high schooler, took some time off when I was in college (and therefore had no means to get to them or time or money) and then started attending again in 2006-2007 when I came home for grad school. I cannot therefore compare them to shows in 1980s. I operate/collect N scale, O.O/27, and G scale and live in the Boston area. I pretty much like all the shows in the area I go to (both Greenburg shows in Wilmington, the November Brockton one, Springfield, S. Shore Model railroad show, and the Cape Cod MRR show), for me it's more what 1 or 2 dealers have to offer. Prior to this year, I bought mainly N scale items because my O gauge trains were put away. I felt like most of these shows were mainly HO/O. However, there might be those one or two dealers that might have something really good. I remember going to a S. Shore model railroad show, a show I rarely buy anything at, but I go because it's in my hometown. One year, I found an N scale NH RS3 for $35. I remember one of the Greenburg shows, one dealer had a whole bunch of Boston and Maine N scale, including custom painted items and a switcher I always wanted, all priced very well. Last November in Brockton, I got an RMT Boston and Maine beep for $65. I noticed I do tend to shop from the same people each time, but these people I notice tend to price things consistently well and look for unique items. At least in my opinion, I feel the shows are fairly consistent. But again, I can't compare them to the shows from the 1980s. As far as the crumedegon attitude goes, it does happen, but...what can you do. I think the worst I had, I asked to bargain with someone and the dealer proceeded to give me this long speech about why he couldn't (a simple no, sorry would have surficed). I think brick and mortar stores can be worse. I go to Charles Ro quite a bit. Some people in there are wonderful, great, very helpful. Others, despite me (and my parents!) shopping there for over 15 years, still are rude and condescending.

For me, I like the whole experience of going to a train show, the drive there, seeing the layouts,...etc. I would also posit that changes in shows may be reflective of overall trends in model railroading. For example, many of you brought up "just hi rail." It does seem to me that in O gauge there has been a general trend to hi rail.
 #1202566  by Death Star
 
We have three train shows in the La Crosse WI area. Two of them are flea markets and swap meets with many vendors selling new and used trains in many scales, books and railrodiana. The other show is more of a "display" show with many layouts and just a few vendors, but with various trains-new and old and in many scales. My club has usually had a table at the swap meet shows. From what I have noticed is vendors sell their used trains no matter the scale way too high. I've seen Athearn Blue Box locomotives selling for more than $100. it is ridiculous. I@ge found them at shows for less. I don't think it is coming to an all "O-27/ O gauge" hi-rail train show world but a higher priced show world. I try to price my trains reasonably, but it seems some don't.
 #1202611  by Backshophoss
 
The "travelling stores" that are not backed up by a storefront at home will tend to focus on "covering" their expenses first,during multi-day shows,
after that,some may "wheel and deal",others will stick to "routine" and wind up hauling up to 90% of their stock back home.
There is now a "new" kind of retailer out on the show circut,they buy up collections/estates of model railroaders,then sell at the shows at a
price level 2/3rds to 3/4th of "current" new model retail price.
This kind of retailer understands the Athearn "Blue Box" is no longer in production,that MDC(Roundhouse)is a part of Athearn now,
AHM/IHC no longer exisits,tend to price based on the rarity of the model at times.
Now there's a JUNK seller at shows too,seen more at Flea markets,$5 to $10 level,"Blue Box" to Tyco,
the rare suprize is found here,may have parts missing however. :(
 #1202857  by umtrr-author
 
Backshophoss wrote:There is now a "new" kind of retailer out on the show circut,they buy up collections/estates of model railroaders,then sell at the shows at a price level 2/3rds to 3/4th of "current" new model retail price.
This kind of retailer understands the Athearn "Blue Box" is no longer in production,that MDC(Roundhouse)is a part of Athearn now,
AHM/IHC no longer exisits,tend to price based on the rarity of the model at times.
Now there's a JUNK seller at shows too,seen more at Flea markets,$5 to $10 level,"Blue Box" to Tyco,
the rare suprize is found here,may have parts missing however. :(
And the folks most likely to get 'taken' (besides the unknowing who sell the estates to these bottom-fishers in the first place) are the new entrants into the hobby and the generally uninformed. This won't encourage their continued participation in the hobby.

I'm in a situation now where I also need to handle an estate (my dad's). Trust me when I say I'm not a little old lady who doesn't know what she's talking about-- but on the other hand, I'm a realist about what items are worth (and it's not 2/3 to 3/4 of the current product price).