HO Budd Metroliner MUs from Walthers/Proto 1000!

[Mike@IHP]

Metroliner is first All-New WalthersProto™ Release


Flashing by at 100+mph, Metroliners symbolized American high-speed rail service for over 25 years, serving legions of business travelers on Penn Central and later Amtrak as the fastest scheduled trains in the western hemisphere! Now these history-making trains are being done in authentic HO Scale as only Walthers can, with the all-new WalthersProto™Metroliner.



Completely new from roof to rails, we've captured the unique shape of the Coach, Snack Bar Coach and Parlor Car in all-new tooling. Decorated in the Amtrak Phase I paint scheme, each comes fully assembled with Walthers real metal "stainless steel" finish complimented by ultra-sharp Amtrak Phase I paint and lettering. All feature factory-printed car numbers too. Fine details, from a full underbody to installed grab irons, from prototypically tinted windows to sprung General Electric or Westinghouse pantographs as appropriate, are all included. Powered by the proven technology of WalthersProto™locomotives, each car has its own high torque motor, driving a powered truck with helical gears, and comes in Tsunami® Sound & DCC or Standard DC versions to meet every customer's needs.



Nothing moves faster than a Metroliner - and our new limited run Deluxe Edition models will be no exception! Ready for your railroad, these Pennsy models depict the original test cars delivered with Tuscan stripes and PRR Keystone herald - a scheme never used in revenue service as the Penn Central merger took place soon after. In addition to all the great features found on the standard Amtrak cars, the Deluxe Edition PRR Metroliners come with factory-installed Tsunami® Sound & DCC and factory-installed Preiser engineering team figures inside. Hurry though, these 4-car sets are a one-time production run strictly limited to 350 sets.



Only 8 sets will be available to Blue Ridge Hobbies of the Deluxe Edition PRR Metroliner set (sold only as a set of four cars, individual cars will not be available separately) for each set of four standard Metroliner units ordered. MSRP $1,199.92 Retail Value (SEE SPECIAL PRICING BELOW)



Standard Edition Cars


HO Budd Metroliner Snack Bar Coach


Amtrak Phase I February 2013


Tsunami Sound & DCC $259.98 each

BRH PRICE $213.31


920-14800 #861


920-14801 #868



Standard DC $169.98 each

BRH PRICE $142.74


920-13800 #863


920-13801 #864



HO Budd Metroliner Parlor Car


Amtrak Phase I March 2013


Tsunami Sound & DCC $259.98 each

BRH PRICE $213.31


920-14820 #884


920-14821 #889



Standard DC $169.98 each


BRH PRICE $142.74


920-13820 #886


920-13821 #888



HO Budd Metroliner Coach


Amtrak Phase I April 2013


Tsunami Sound & DCC $259.98 each
BRH PRICE $213.31


920-14840 #809


920-14841 #823



Standard DC $169.98 each

BRH PRICE $142.74


920-13840 #822


920-13841 #830



SPECIAL PRR SET


HO Budd Metroliner PRR Deluxe Limited-Run 4-Car Set With Tsunami Sound & DCC $1,199.92

BRH PRICE $995.93
UNTIL 05/14/12 BRH PRICE $939.94


920-14819 Snack Bar Coach #850 February 2013


920-14839 Parlor Car #882 March 2013


920-14858 Coach #800 April 2013


920-14859 Coach #826 April 2013

[CNJ999]

I have to regard this as yet another example of how the manufacturers today have totally lost their minds when it comes to pricing. Here we have an example of a plastic model selling at the price of brass. No thank you, Walthers! How long before we see this hobby driven totally into the ground by such practices?

And what is "done in authentic HO scale"? This is the kind of wording that used to be reserved for selling cheapo Life-Like junk years ago when appealing to the department store crowd in a effort to unload stuff at Christmas time. Alternately, the entire first paragraph of Walthers' product announcement could be said to be lingo straight out of a 1950's Lionel catalog! How sad that this is how they view their customer base.

CNJ999

[Mirai Zikasu]

That was my first impression as well. For the cost of four basic RTR cars (about $700), one could buy a comparable European EMU of unique tooling with PluX DCC and sound, and that's including 20% VAT tax. Whatever the R&D cost is for these cars, Walthers is trying to squeeze every last penny out of potential consumers and then some. Plus, the unique road numbers is a bummer, especially when for Amtrak, the only accurate cafe numbers and one of the clubs is the sound-equipped units at almost $100 more per car. Given, this is a problem with the prototype as just two or three cafes and only one club got Amtrak Phase I, but it's troublesome nonetheless.

With that said, details will include the first decent U.S.-scale Faiveley pantographs since the 70s Bachmann Metroliners and the first mass-produced Stemman pantograph I've ever seen, motors and drives be something unique and probably well-hidden due to the design of the cars (I'm assuming full interiors with lighting potential will be the goal.), and all cars will be powered (Part of the reason for the ridiculous price). Expensive as it is, though, I'll probably buy a 4-car set, maybe two with sound as I expect to run the cars in pairs or a standard 4-car set. That should offset the cost a bit and allow the custom sound which I bet will be Walthers exclusives and impossible to get otherwise. When all is said and done, the pricing sucks tremendously, though I'll probably bite on this one just as it's a prototype that interests me, will hopefully lead to a renaissance of Amtrak releases, and is probably not much more than the cost of getting Bachmann Metroliners rebuilt to a decent modern standard given the glut of custom parts not readily available on the market & work they'd need.

EDIT: By the way, Mike, I suppose this supports your mantra: "The more progress I make on a resin kit, the more likely the major company does it in plastic." :P

[peanut1]

I don't feel the pricing is to bad, For me however I'm going to have to get a job to get them. One car is only going to cost $169.00, if you do your research you probably could find them cheaper but not by that much.

[mlrr]

Aren't these being sold as married pairs? If so that would put the cars at about 80 a piece unless each car is powered which is still around the price of a typical engine these days. I'm not too thrilled about the cost but I can see the logic in the pricing. I'm disappointed that there don't appear to be "dummies" but perhaps I read it wrong.

On another note, this makes me more optimistic about a totally retooled Amfleet I. I just hope that if these don't sell well, that Walthers isn't discouraged from producing the Amfleet I descendants.

[Mike@IHP]

No, they're being offered individually, and for all the griping I've heard so far about the prices, they are commensurate with current costs and circumstances. Keep in mind that these are all essentially powered locomotives. They are all new tooling. There's Amtrak licensing in there. The market for them is limited. Oh, and those pantographs aren't cheap, either, and they are making TWO different types for this project. Plus, the DCC versions will naturally be that much extra. I don't understand why we feel like we're somehow entitled to inexpensive models that have all the details and features we want. This isn't Athearn Blue Box anymore, and no one wants 1970s Bachmann quality for the price. We're getting new plastic HO US-prototype MU cars, and these won't be the last. This is what we wanted, but this is also the way it is now, just Make More Money!

In any case, the first of these is still nine months away at the earliest. This may even be nothing more than a trial balloon, since there are no model photos. This could wind up being like MTH's proposed O Metroliners from a few years ago. I hope not, I'd buy a few of these whenever they are available.

Mike Bartel

[peanut1]

Aren't these being sold as married pairs? If so that would put the cars at about 80 a piece unless each car is powered which is still around the price of a typical engine these days. I'm not too thrilled about the cost but I can see the logic in the pricing. I'm disappointed that there don't appear to be "dummies" but perhaps I read it wrong.

On another note, this makes me more optimistic about a totally retooled Amfleet I. I just hope that if these don't sell well, that Walthers isn't discouraged from producing the Amfleet I descendants.

They definatley won't be disappointed after a buy at least two cars. One with sound and one without.

[mlrr]

T
EDIT: By the way, Mike, I suppose this supports your mantra: "The more progress I make on a resin kit, the more likely the major company does it in plastic."

Before seeing this post and being made aware of this announcement, I actually pulled out my kitbashed 9800 cab car to see what I needed to do next to finish it, lol.

The only way I see purchasing these items is if I need to kitbash, but it's just more economical to purchase the old Bachmann Metroliners and build those up as before. I don't take issue with the price but these are still out of my era (i.e. present-day ops and unfortunately, just miss my nostalgia exceptions). I'd like to support the cause but I'm bracing for a more pricey improved Amfleet I. Once I've filled my equipment needs, I can sink money into products like these with little opportunity cost!

Who knows, Walthers may even produce the converted cab cars from these but I much rather see the Amfleet I first!

[Mirai Zikasu]

No, they're being offered individually, and for all the griping I've heard so far about the prices, they are commensurate with current costs and circumstances. Keep in mind that these are all essentially powered locomotives. They are all new tooling. There's Amtrak licensing in there. The market for them is limited. Oh, and those pantographs aren't cheap, either, and they are making TWO different types for this project. Plus, the DCC versions will naturally be that much extra. I don't understand why we feel like we're somehow entitled to inexpensive models that have all the details and features we want. This isn't Athearn Blue Box anymore, and no one wants 1970s Bachmann quality for the price. We're getting new plastic HO US-prototype MU cars, and these won't be the last. This is what we wanted, but this is also the way it is now, just Make More Money! :-)

While I understand the cost that comes with R&D of something completely unlike anything on the market, the thing that bothered me is the degree of the cost inflation. It goes without saying that consumer demands are for far greater detail than Athearn Blue Box kits or old Bachmann tooling. (Though, I'd bust on Bachmann for their late 70s and 80s retooling that simplified that Metroliners and later coaches as the first and second releases with their detail level, fairly high accuracy, metal Faiveley pantographs, etc. were excellent considering their vintage.)

What I'm using as a comparison point is European modeling. After following that market for a few years (nostalgia from traveling and somewhat easier modeling given the major lack of modern passenger releases over the last few years outside of the Amtrak 40th Anniversary event), I'm used to seeing US$200-300 locomotives, $70+ coaches, and easily $500 and up for EMUs and trainsets as the norm. Tooling is very specialized outside of a few specific car and locomotive classes, yet nothing adds up with the number of amenities offered, the glut of variations in wheels, trucks, buffers, pantographs, custom sound, preinstalled DCC decoders, intricate underbodies, diaphragms often with working drop plates, and 100-part, molded, painted, and decaled passenger coach/MU INTERIORS that adds up to the cost of what Walthers wants for the Metroliners. Even with Europe's 20% sales tax added onto the cost of a model, nothing add up to what Walthers wants. It's an extremely high price taking quality into consideration.

The only thing that seems to justify the price over $100 is that each car is powered and with something more discreet than a can motor to preserve interior decorations. Oh, and if Amtrak licensing is involved in the high price like what has happened with the Microscale decal rerelease around the 40th anniversary or what constantly goes on with NJT's neurotic trademark ninnies, shame on them. Whether they're entitled to royalties for a likeness used, it's in bad form unless they're actively providing a glut of references or funding to make this happen. As I said, I will probably buy four cars as it's a model I seriously want, and I'm willing to deal with the price when all is said and done, but all I can think when dealing with the sticker shock is "Jinkies."

Before seeing this post and being made aware of this announcement, I actually pulled out my kitbashed 9800 cab car to see what I needed to do next to finish it, lol.

The only way I see purchasing these items is if I need to kitbash, but it's just more economical to purchase the old Bachmann Metroliners and build those up as before. I don't take issue with the price but these are still out of my era (i.e. present-day ops and unfortunately, just miss my nostalgia exceptions). I'd like to support the cause but I'm bracing for a more pricey improved Amfleet I. Once I've filled my equipment needs, I can sink money into products like these with little opportunity cost!

Who knows, Walthers may even produce the converted cab cars from these but I much rather see the Amfleet I first!

That's the other thing I'm watching. For whatever time I've put into Amfleet rebuilds with those Bachmann shells I've had for the last three years now, all the custom ends, windows, and underbody parts they'd need is sobering, and I'd be just as willing to build up a new fleet of Amfleets if the cost of each car wasn't over $9,000. For what it's worth, an NEC modeler can never have too many Amfleets, lol.

While the Metroliners are out of my era as I'm around the same time frame as you, I do have a soft spot for regional anachronisms as the Metroliners were the progenitor of express NEC service or the sleekness of Phase IV for NED or Metroliner service. I like little bits of nostalgia mixed in, and it's an incentive to take my old Bachmann Metroliners which I wanted to rebuild anyway and make them into cab cars, a model of the 9800, or whatnot now that I'm working on any model RR projects again for the first time in half a year or so.

[Ken S.]

The pricing and sound/DCC makes this sound more like a Proto 2000 model then a Proto 1000 model. Especially when compared to the NYCTA models released as Proto 1000 models. Remember that the first releases of those had no end gates. Those didn't appear until they molded the end doors to make R21/22s out of the same body shells as the R17. The recent RDC release has a retail of $140 though and that metal finish probably costs Walthers some money to make. The costs of R&D alone were probably high too considering that any surviving Metroliners are in the Northeast (I believe one is in a museum somewhere and the 9800 is parked somewhere by Amtrak when not in use).

[green_elite_cab]

This makes me depressed. For years I've been fishing out "First run" Bachmann Metroliners of various qualitites and trying to fix them up. I have about 12, but only 8 are in good working order. I might be able to fix up two more if I can get parts.

Unlike most people here, Metroliners are a MAJOR part of what I model. In order to model the "One Hour", I'm going to need at least two sets worth. That means anywhere from 8 to 12 cars.

I know it would be an endless project and a half to finish the ones I have, and I still have some other MU kits to build. I'd love a set, but even just getting 4 of the DC versions would cost ~$676, without counting shipping and other issues. Remember, its still gonna need DCC anyway. Add up the price of a worthwhile decoder, they're all about $35 now, multiply by 4, thats $144 extra. You're looking at just above $800.

If the price doesn't go down, I at least hope they don't sell out immeadiately. If they are "hanging out" for a while, I could probably pick one up here or there over the year. Perhaps I can convince 4 different people to buy me a car around birthday/Christmas . I'm really starting to wish this internship I'm in was paid right about now.

[green_elite_cab]

The pricing and sound/DCC makes this sound more like a Proto 2000 model then a Proto 1000 model. Especially when compared to the NYCTA models released as Proto 1000 models. Remember that the first releases of those had no end gates. Those didn't appear until they molded the end doors to make R21/22s out of the same body shells as the R17. The recent RDC release has a retail of $140 though and that metal finish probably costs Walthers some money to make. The costs of R&D alone were probably high too considering that any surviving Metroliners are in the Northeast (I believe one is in a museum somewhere and the 9800 is parked somewhere by Amtrak when not in use).

There is a Snack Bar rotting with the Pioneer III cars out at the Railroad Musem of PA in Strasburg. Apparently, they are unwanted because they are too "new" (1958 on the Pioneers, 1967 for the metroliner). By that logic, they should thin out their collection a little more I think.

That said, it shouldn't have been to much trouble for Walthers to just send some guy out to measure the thing.

[Mike@IHP]

T
EDIT: By the way, Mike, I suppose this supports your mantra: "The more progress I make on a resin kit, the more likely the major company does it in plastic."

Before seeing this post and being made aware of this announcement, I actually pulled out my kitbashed 9800 cab car to see what I needed to do next to finish it, lol.

The only way I see purchasing these items is if I need to kitbash, but it's just more economical to purchase the old Bachmann Metroliners and build those up as before. I don't take issue with the price but these are still out of my era (i.e. present-day ops and unfortunately, just miss my nostalgia exceptions). I'd like to support the cause but I'm bracing for a more pricey improved Amfleet I. Once I've filled my equipment needs, I can sink money into products like these with little opportunity cost!

Who knows, Walthers may even produce the converted cab cars from these but I much rather see the Amfleet I first!

That's why I never seriously considered the cab car conversions as candidates for resin kits or even as conversion shells. I figured people were just kitbashing the Bachmann cars. I've seen some nice results from these and I've done one or two for myself, it's a not a complicated job. Amtrak has a number of cab cars still in service, mostly in Keystone service. Even so, one would like to think that this might be a precursor to a new 'MetroShell'-based series of models from Walthers, including new Amfleet cars, but that will remain to be seen. Lionel did the cab car in O scale recently, albeit incorrectly, and they are sold out; it's possible Walthers might be watching that. As I once said before, it seems unlikely we'll see a lot of that kind of stuff in plastic, but then again up until last year, I never thought we'd ever have plastic kits of WW2 Italian battleships, either. Now, if an SPV-2000 suddenly is announced, then I will be convinced that the world is ending.

New Amfleet cars might be in the $30-$50 range. People are buying the excellent new cars from Rapido and Walthers at those prices, so why not an Amfleet car if done the same way? It's only if you model Amtrak and need a large fleet that you may experience some sticker shock. Most folks will probably buy a handful for their crack passenger train. As I said, just be glad that there is enough interest for this to be happening from a major manufacturer. It means you may have to make some extra money to afford what you need, but isn't this what some of us have been screaming for all these years?

Mike Bartel

[green_elite_cab]

That's why I never seriously considered the cab car conversions as candidates for resin kits or even as conversion shells. I figured people were just kitbashing the Bachmann cars.

Mike Bartel

Perhaps this warrants a re-design of that old Capitalliner Shell? It sounds like the Walthers mechanism is a worthy design!

[Mike@IHP]

That's why I never seriously considered the cab car conversions as candidates for resin kits or even as conversion shells. I figured people were just kitbashing the Bachmann cars.

Mike Bartel

Perhaps this warrants a re-design of that old Capitalliner Shell? It sounds like the Walthers mechanism is a worthy design!

No, if I did the Capital-liner rebuilds, I'd do them as complete ready to run units. There's no money in shells like those. Besides, the Capital-liner changes weren't just in the bodies; the underbodies were changed, too. But, Walthers could surprise us, I have a feeling these companies are starting to look for things to do!

Mike Bartel