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  • Repowering an HO Bachmann Metroliner

  • Discussion related to everything about model railroading, from layout design and planning, to reviews of related model tools and equipment. Discussion includes O, S, HO, N and Z, as well as narrow gauge topics. Also includes discussion of traditional "toy train" and "collector" topics such as Lionel, American Flyer, Marx, and others. Also includes discussion of outdoor garden railways and live steamers.
Discussion related to everything about model railroading, from layout design and planning, to reviews of related model tools and equipment. Discussion includes O, S, HO, N and Z, as well as narrow gauge topics. Also includes discussion of traditional "toy train" and "collector" topics such as Lionel, American Flyer, Marx, and others. Also includes discussion of outdoor garden railways and live steamers.

Moderators: 3rdrail, stilson4283, Otto Vondrak

 #856156  by green_elite_cab
 
cnj1524 wrote:I dont think IHP is going to the oct. show
really? it was there the last two times, i thought i heard he would. Well, i can't find anything either way, so we'll see.
I will be going to the
show so I will have the amtrak pantograph book which goes into detail for the following,ringsdorff,faiveley DS-11,
faiveley 17MCP1A10,Stemmann JA-3 pantos and looking forward to talking to Island model works about future projects
at the show,
Anyway i can get a copy of those pantograph diagrams?
What did you use for the drive shafts(tubing?)on the liners
Its model airplane fuel line. I want to say its made out of Neoprene, but its super cheap, you can get it any any aircraft hobby store.

Incidentally, its a great replacement for those P1K RDC drive shafts (which tend to snap).
 #856342  by Cadet57
 
green_elite_cab wrote: Incidentally, its a great replacement for those P1K RDC drive shafts (which tend to snap).
Hmm, maybe I should try that to fix an Athearn drive line I broke...
 #856492  by green_elite_cab
 
Cadet57 wrote:
green_elite_cab wrote: Incidentally, its a great replacement for those P1K RDC drive shafts (which tend to snap).
Hmm, maybe I should try that to fix an Athearn drive line I broke...
It could work, but it depends on the type of Athearn drive you have. If its an older style, the the spline shaft, just get a new spline shaft, they are cheap and easy to find.

The other new type probably isn't that expensive either. If you found some fuel line with a small enough diameter, you could probably attach it with the fuel line, but it probably costs less to get the new part from athearn.
 #856849  by AntonioFP45
 
So glad to see other Metroliner fans here. Although I've been concentrating on my Walthers and Rivarossi streamliners, I've been working (on and off) on a batch of Bachmann Metros for a while. Below are photos of some of the shells that were Metalized with Alclad 2. They're shiny only because I haven't toned them down with the clear coat yet. After the clear coat cures, the cabs will be painted white to match the prototype photos. I'm searching for red striping material that can be used for the stripes that surround the window rows. Plans are to finish 4 shells in Penn Central, and one in Pennsylvania.

ImageImageImage
Here's a prototype photo by Ken Piersol: Image

For repowering a modeler on another forum recommended the "Bull Ant" power truck. http://www.hollywoodfoundry.com/shopdis ... MechanismsThe weird problem with the Metros is that their trucks are 9 feet long and they use 40" locomotive wheels. The trucks and wheels from the P1K RDC's: Trucks are too short in length and the wheels are too small in diameter.

I would prefer a cheaper option. I plan on just having one of the Metros powered (DCC with sound) while the rest of the cars will have interior lighting.
 #857011  by green_elite_cab
 
AntonioFP45 wrote:So glad to see other Metroliner fans here.
I remember your posts from MR forums, you're the one that got me to be an alclad fanatic, lol. I'm sure you've seen my MU cars and such (just recently had my SEPTA/Reading silverliner IV on display a rail-prototype meet and got loads of questions about it).
I'm searching for red striping material that can be used for the stripes that surround the window rows. Plans are to finish 4 shells in Penn Central, and one in Pennsylvania.
I'm not sure how well it would work, but perhaps buying some EL/NJDOT decals (like those for the Comet 1 cars) might work. They have a similar red stripe arrangement, and i imagine it would only need some tweaking towards the ends. Prime Mover Decals sells these.
For repowering a modeler on another forum recommended the "Bull Ant" power truck. The weird problem with the Metros is that their trucks are 9 feet long and they use 40" locomotive wheels. The trucks and wheels from the P1K RDC's: Trucks are too short in length and the wheels are too small in diameter.
I don't like the bull ant for MU applications. It forces you to stick a large motor into your model where there should be an interior, and i suspect it involves more surgery than is necessary. Black Beetles and now the new NWSL Stanton power trucks can definitely be used for the MUs. Testing an IHP Arrow III single with one black beetle seemed to give it excellent performance. You'd probably only need a two power units to move a 4 or 6 car train. one power truck per pair would be all you need.

I'm also tired of the "RDC" solution. there must be PILES of RDC shells just laying around (any spare PRSL, Reading, or Jersey Central out there?). It doesn't look right, and it wastes an otherwise good model.
I would prefer a cheaper option. I plan on just having one of the Metros powered (DCC with sound) while the rest of the cars will have interior lighting.
I don't think there is a cheaper option. either way, you're going to be spending at least $80 a power unit.
 #857266  by ApproachMedium
 
I agree an RDC is an excellent model, a great puller and are saught after by many modelers, esp the RDC 1 models right now are very hard to find. For the price and prototype of things your better off getting the Stanton trucks from NWSl. They also come DCC ready and provide you with full space for interior. Perfect for the arrow cars!
 #857625  by AntonioFP45
 
Hello, GreenElite! :-D

Good to see you're on this forum. :P I'm very glad that the Alclad worked well for you. Can you post a link to the latest photos of you cars?

Regarding the Black Beetle. I did a search online and haven't found info on it (I'm an internet klutz, of course). I was leaning towards the Bull Ant because of the good reputation regarding performance, but I'm open to ideas and would like to read the info on the Black Beetle, including where it can be ordered from. Performance wise, I'd like a flywheel if possible and 70 scale mph operation. (Although the prototypes were 100 mph torpedoes, those speeds wouldn't be practical on most HO scale layouts). As mentioned before, the prototype Metroliners basically had locomotive sized trucks and wheels, so I'm looking for the same.

I went to Prime Mover's website and saw the decal. http://primemoverdecals.com/pdf/pmd009.pdf

That red stripe would be excellent, but one thing I'm not clear on. Is that red stripe part of the dark color (gray, blue) band that goes over the row of windows? Or is the red stripe separate? If it's all one solid piece, it seems like it would be quite a tedious job of cutting it out. But then again, beggars can't always be choosers :wink:

I very much appreciate any suggestions and pointers from you and the guys on here.

High Greens to you!
 #857794  by jetfan
 
AntonioFP45 wrote: Regarding the Black Beetle. I did a search online and haven't found info on it (I'm an internet klutz, of course). I was leaning towards the Bull Ant because of the good reputation regarding performance, but I'm open to ideas and would like to read the info on the Black Beetle, including where it can be ordered from. Performance wise, I'd like a flywheel if possible and 70 scale mph operation. (Although the prototypes were 100 mph torpedoes, those speeds wouldn't be practical on most HO scale layouts). As mentioned before, the prototype Metroliners basically had locomotive sized trucks and wheels, so I'm looking for the same.
Antonio,
Here is a link to the new Stanton drive by NWSL:
http://www.nwsl.com/motors-power-drives/stanton-drive

They have the 9'-0" WB with 40" wheels, they do retail for about $80.00, however, with the larger 9 foot wb, you will get the larger motor, which is capable of pulling over 1-1/2 pounds. They are also durable drives, in conversations with the owner of NWSL, at the time, they had a unit running 24/7 nonstop, for well over 30 days with no issues. We will be offering these drives, albeit 8'-6" wb's with 33" wheels, in there near future as we are awaiting our shipment, at a discount.

As for the beetle, here is a link:

http://www.hollywoodfoundry.com/shopdis ... Mechanisms

Take care,
Joe
 #857801  by ApproachMedium
 
If you are running in DCC a flywheel drive is NOT necessary. All flywheels do is add for better slow speed operation in DC and smoother stops with loads. On motors this small its tough for a flywheel to make much difference. If u dont want it to stop on a dime just add a little momentium.

The original Metroliners were capable of going up to 160+ mph. I know the NWSL device is geared for some type of prototypical speed, probably in the 70-80SMPH range. The NWSL setup can also be offered in many different wheelbases and wheel sizes.
 #858181  by ac0catenary
 
Hello All
I have three diffrent power trains of the Bachmann Metroliner and ive discovered that using the latest power version (power tower truck) with two power cars is a way to make sure the fragile motors do not burn out. I have a 3%-4% incline on my layout and they run up it with no problem. I am going to try powering another Metro with the Proto RDC chassis which is very cheap at TRAIN WORLD (24.00). If that doesnt work out I will try the NWSL stuff.. On another note I saw a Stemman Pant on a Island Models Arrow car. Where did he get that from ?
Heres a pict of my 4 car GE rebuilt Capitaliners The First car and second car are powered and operate of Live DCC catenary with rest of the set recieving power for Lighting from the rear Pantograph
I hope to get a sound decoder in this set soon, But an AEM-7 and a GG-1 are ahead of it
Image
Image
I hope that IHP will make the correct Roof Blisters for The Metro. The blisters I have came off of horrible OK silverliners
 #858354  by Mirai Zikasu
 
green_elite_cab wrote:I found that if you trade in most of your mental health, you can produce nearly anything. If being on the verge of insanity is a fair trade, i say go for it! :P

I'll have to check the sizes, but i think i have some 1/32 brass wire, and brass tube just small enough that the wire can slide into it. I used this to make my arms. I based the lengths off the Metro liner's pantograph arms. Right now, i'm using old GG1 pantographs i bought spare for the pantograph shoes, though that could be made with flat bar stock or brass sheet.

I'll have to take an updated picture. I have a REALLY old photo posted on here somewhere of when i first put the arms together, but now i've got most of a base built. As Mike Bartel of IHP told me one October train show "good luck with the equalizer bars". He is right, and that is the only major challenge for me to build these things. The parts are getting so small that its difficult to solder, and you need everything to link up just right. I've yet to get precise enough.

Also, springs are becoming a problem. I'm unwilling to "sacrafice" springs from existing pantographs, because they're just fine to. I've been stealing springs from worn out pump and blow seals before i throw them out at work. I've been harvesting some smaller ones, but they still aren't perfect.
Ha. The moment someone gets involved in model railroading, looks at a model, and says "Maybe I should change this..." he is ready to sacrifice his mental health to get it right. The biggest thing stopping me for giving it a shot myself is that I unfortunately don't have a number of tools for metal work. It sucks, but I admit that I have so many other projects lined up that I don't think too much about it. (For one, I just got some resin casting supplies to toy with in the hope of making some custom Amfleet I ends and underbody parts for a mass rebuild project from a bunch of old Bachmann shells I've been poking around with for the last two years.)

I have a book, "Amtrak Annual 1978-1979" that lists which cars had the striping. Unfortunately, other than a supplement, the books were not continued.

anyways, these are the units that got the phase I striping:

...

I concede that this book could be wrong, but from what i've seen, the Phase I metroliners were uncommon, and until they were rebuilt, there was almost never a 4 or 6 car train with more than two phase Is if any.
Yeah, those are all right. I've been interested in the Metroliners since I started caring about Amtrak a decade ago, and so I did some searching myself. All of those units listed have showed up in Phase I on RRPictureArchives, Railpictures, and Hebners'. Sadly, as you also said, they were all rather scarce in consists since there was only one cafe and club each. (Comically, Bachmann's Phase I Metroliner 803 was never painted in Phase I!) Though, add Cafe 868 to that list. Apparently, it was painted into Phase I and then Phase II but without a Capitoliner hump! Talk about anomalies!

By the way, I got a few shots of my E60s.
Side
45° Angle
Front
They still need some work, but I'm happy with them so far given my habit of juggling 10 different projects at a time. The two units originally came to me as a pair of shells and unpainted roof parts. The 603 is the [obviously] more complete of the two. The second still needs a number, though I'm thinking about making it 608 as I want to model one of the three units with the half-length battery box. It has a Blue Box Athearn FP45 chassis that was milled down to reflect that shape of the battery box with GEC trucks (apparently not quite right, but the closest mass-produced thing). Numberboards are from Details West, and class light boxes are made from styrene and putty. When I figure out how to do custom lighting, I hope to get them wired up, and I have some LEDs and fiber optics ready to install. I trimmed the corners of the pilots and shaved down and extended the side ladders to better reflect the prototype. Stripes, numberboard numbers, and Amtrak logos (slightly too bold but a better height than the Phase II logos) are from Microscale's Phase III diesel sheet (87-424). Side numbers are from the Phase II diesel sheet (87-423). Both units still need pantographs, windows (the second unit needs custom cut windows as I only have one set of windows), and MU and HEP details. I also need to find my roof details or figure out how to get new ones as they went missing when I last tried to rearrange my model parts. (Anyone have some spare E60 parts for sale?)
 #858595  by cnj1524
 
for your e60 parts,you may want to try to contact athearn as they were contracted from american gk/walthers
to build them,but it is unlikely you will see complete units from them again as the molds were broke.
 #859267  by green_elite_cab
 
AntonioFP45 wrote:Hello, GreenElite! :-D

Good to see you're on this forum. :P I'm very glad that the Alclad worked well for you. Can you post a link to the latest photos of you cars?
I'd be glad to! I haven't made any metroliner progress in a while (building a pair of IMW ALP46s and IHP GP40FH-2s in exchange for 6 IHP Arrow III married pair kits. its taken all of my time!). I do have good photos of my Silverliner IV, and other than some little details, its looking good. I used the Alcad on this unit, but i can't ever get the light to show how shiny it is. it looks right.

Image

Image
Regarding the Black Beetle. I did a search online and haven't found info on it (I'm an internet klutz, of course). I was leaning towards the Bull Ant because of the good reputation regarding performance, but I'm open to ideas and would like to read the info on the Black Beetle, including where it can be ordered from. Performance wise, I'd like a flywheel if possible and 70 scale mph operation. (Although the prototypes were 100 mph torpedoes, those speeds wouldn't be practical on most HO scale layouts). As mentioned before, the prototype Metroliners basically had locomotive sized trucks and wheels, so I'm looking for the same.
www.motorbogies.com sells the black beetle in custom sizes, including the one that can match the metroliners. I'm not sure how fast exactly it will go, but it looks fast enough.
I went to Prime Mover's website and saw the decal. http://primemoverdecals.com/pdf/pmd009.pdf

That red stripe would be excellent, but one thing I'm not clear on. Is that red stripe part of the dark color (gray, blue) band that goes over the row of windows? Or is the red stripe separate? If it's all one solid piece, it seems like it would be quite a tedious job of cutting it out. But then again, beggars can't always be choosers :wink:

I very much appreciate any suggestions and pointers from you and the guys on here.
I think its separate, but I'm not sure. even so, a straight edge and a fresh hobby knife would make short work of it. Besides, if you were going to use JUST the strips, you'd have to cut it out like that anyway.
 #859272  by green_elite_cab
 
ac0catenary wrote:Hello All
I have three diffrent power trains of the Bachmann Metroliner and ive discovered that using the latest power version (power tower truck) with two power cars is a way to make sure the fragile motors do not burn out.
do you get legitimate performance from it?
I am going to try powering another Metro with the Proto RDC chassis which is very cheap at TRAIN WORLD (24.00). If that doesnt work out I will try the NWSL stuff..
don't bother, its not worth it. Get a powered truck, trust me. the RDC won't look right, and again, its a waste of a good model.
On another note I saw a Stemman Pant on a Island Models Arrow car. Where did he get that from ?
Its not truly a stemman pantograph. Its a pair of faively pantographs kitbashed into one. the Arrow kit comes with a base (may be useful) that you can adapt the other pantograph parts to to make a "stand in".

THAT SAID, I've actually solved the stabilization problem with my Stemman Pantograph scratch-build. Basically, i just need to solder a wire in the "armpit" of each "arm" of the stemman pan, so that it can't be pulled to far one way or another. Thats alot easier than a "stabilizer bar".

thank you 1968 Walthers MP54 car kits. it figures a 50 year old model has the solution to today's problems. I'm going to work on a jig to make much better "true" stemman pans more rapidly. I might sell them if anyone is interested (though please don't bombard me with a super huge order, i only have so much time).
I hope that IHP will make the correct Roof Blisters for The Metro. The blisters I have came off of horrible OK silverliners
when I last saw them in 2006, they looked right. He made models but never put them into production.
 #859308  by ac0catenary
 
green_elite_cab wrote:
ac0catenary wrote:Hello All
I have three diffrent power trains of the Bachmann Metroliner and ive discovered that using the latest power version (power tower truck) with two power cars is a way to make sure the fragile motors do not burn out.
do you get legitimate performance from it?
I am going to try powering another Metro with the Proto RDC chassis which is very cheap at TRAIN WORLD (24.00). If that doesnt work out I will try the NWSL stuff..
don't bother, its not worth it. Get a powered truck, trust me. the RDC won't look right, and again, its a waste of a good model.
Bachmann Tower Motor.. Although they get a bad wrap
You can get legitimate performance when you wire both power cars with tower motors to one decoder with 128 speed steps from there you can program the decoder for optimum start voltage. With these Modifications The metros can crawl slow and reach an incredible top speed. A four car set is faster than the Acela.

All I need from the RDC is the wheel chassis .. The underbody is not needed. Since the RDC is already balanced for pulling power its a good start (less modifications) and I dont mind sacrificing an RDC for a MU anyday. speacially at $24.. I have a ton of wheel sets that I can swap in and out for the right wheel size ..u also get a circuit board, leds and a partial interior. I can use that extra money to buy sound decoders

On another note .. GEC post some picts of the stemmann Pant and if you have it a video of the NWSL power truck on your Arrow 3.. would like to see how it worked out

For the Metro Roof Hump I found a good Picture that shows that the hump isnt flat on top but kinda like a "stealth fighters cockpit" I never saw the IHP version .. I ask him what is up with that