The difference between O and 027?

[mirrodie]

From what I read online, the differences between both has to do with the Radius of curvature of the turning tracks. That said, I'm showing you a few photos. The two engines are part of the same train set but it seems to me that the switcher and the cab unit appear out of scale to each other. Thoughts? Is it me or does the switcher look taller and larger than the cab unit. And is that what we would expect in real life?

Likewise I am attaching a photo of two rail coaches one is O and one is 027.
So I'm I right in saying it's not just a difference in track radius curvature but also in size of the trains?

[Crabman1130]

Lionel are toy trains and are not usually to scale.

In Lionel "O' curves are 31 inch ovals. "O27" are 27 inch ovals. You can also buy some different sized radius curves.

Gauge is the space between rails. So all "O" gauge have the same spaced trucks.

Scale is the proportion of the real thing to the model.

I hope this helps.

[chrisnewhaven]

"O Scale" are trains made to or very close to 1:48 scale.
"O Gauge" trains are reasonably proportioned models. These are usually not scale, however they are fairly close in dimensions to there scale counterparts (usually shorter in length by a few inches, shorter in height by about an inch for most rolling stock). This is done to allow them to navigate sharp O-31 curves. These are the most commonly found models.
"O-27" trains are noticeably smaller models. These cars are usually off scale by several inches to allow them to navigate tighter O-27 curves. O-27 track is noticeably shorter (in height) than O gauge track.These are usually found in starter sets and as add on cars to such sets.
However, in O and O-27 gauges, if the prototype is small enough so that when scaled down to 1:48 scale the equipment can negotiate tight curves such as O-31 and O-27, this equipment may be modeled to scale. Examples of this include small diesel switches (similar to your Long Island switcher) and short cabooses. All three types of equipment can run of the same track, as long as the curve radius is large enough.
Your switcher appears to be O gauge, as well as the large passenger car, with the Alco FA being O-27. The small passenger cars are also O-27.
C.J.V.

*While Lionel is considered as a toy train manufacturer, they do have an extensive 1:48 Scale line as well as MTH Electric Trains and Atlas O.

[mirrodie]

Thanks. THe Scale was what bugged me.

I found it odd that the LIRR MP15 switcher and Alco Cab unit were out of scale and yet BOTH from the same set.

I appreciate both your inputs. Thank you!

[ex Budd man]

when Lionel made the original Alco FA during the 1950's it was an O-27 toy train. If you set it next to an O gauge F-3 you will see one is smaller than the other even though in the real world they were compreable in size. The term 'selective compression' comes to mind, espescially for O-27. The MP-15 was made later and much more to scale.

[RailRide]

I have the set you pictured, the K-Line Greenport Scoot.

The Alco FA is from Kusan tooling from the 1950's. It's an 027-style loco, following in Lionel's formula for making extra-undersized units designated "027" and somewhat less-undersized units (like the F-3) designated "O" Gauge. The primary difference was in the circle diameter (31" versus 27") and rail height (11/16" for 'O' and 7/16" for 0-27, which had its origins in an earler acquisition, possibly Ives, but I can't swear to it). Most equipment from the postwar era could run on either curve track regardless of designation, although Lionel produced 027 switches during the MPC era that had oversized switch motors seemingly designed to keep the larger locomotives from passing through the diverging route on them.

The MP-15 is a K-Line design and is intended to be a full 1:48 scale, albeit with engineering compromises such as truck-mounted pilots and an overly generous ride height caused by the size of the truck-mounted motors.

The passenger cars are also a K-Line design that evokes the look of Lionel's postwar 027 streamliners, but the K-Line ones are longer and were designed with interiors rather than frosted window strips with silhouettes. K-Line also produced a set of still-larger aluminum streamliners in Long Island colors. These were of scale width and height, but were shortened considerably down to 60 scale feet like Lionel's deluxe aluminum cars--until the 60' length itself became downrated with the advent of 18" and 21" passenger cars.

The set is basically a hodgepodge of proportions, and if you look into the history of 3-rail O gauge, you'll find quite a few examples of models that migrated across product lines instead of their tooling being junked simply because they didn't fit a tidy category or accurate scale.

---PCJ

[3rdrail]

Just from an operators point of view, I have always found "O" track to be very durable and able to withstand movement from one layout to the next over very many subsequent layout projects. I also have never bought new track (except an 072 switch), my track having a nice bronzey dark tone just the same as the day I bought it for $5 a bag at Morgan Memorial when I was a kid. I have found that all that's needed is a Scotch Scrubbing Pad and some elbow grease just getting the tops of the rail heads to shine. That's all that you need. If you regularly run your trains, your car's wheels will do the rest and give you many, many years of smooth dependable service. Solder power wire every 5 feet or so to combat voltage drop along the line.