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  • Modeling NJT

  • Discussion related to everything about model railroading, from layout design and planning, to reviews of related model tools and equipment. Discussion includes O, S, HO, N and Z, as well as narrow gauge topics. Also includes discussion of traditional "toy train" and "collector" topics such as Lionel, American Flyer, Marx, and others. Also includes discussion of outdoor garden railways and live steamers.
Discussion related to everything about model railroading, from layout design and planning, to reviews of related model tools and equipment. Discussion includes O, S, HO, N and Z, as well as narrow gauge topics. Also includes discussion of traditional "toy train" and "collector" topics such as Lionel, American Flyer, Marx, and others. Also includes discussion of outdoor garden railways and live steamers.

Moderators: 3rdrail, stilson4283, Otto Vondrak

 #962614  by N-Trizzy2609
 
green_elite_cab wrote:
NJTArrow2 wrote:Did anyone buy the Arrow 2s from IHPHobby?
Arrow IIs are not yet available. I did put in an order for two pairs though. I'm thinking its going to be a very long time before they will be out though. Right now, IHP seems to be doing exclusively SEPTA store work, and maybe a few other models (I think there were some trolley and ACMUs out).

That said, i have the Arrow III and Silverliner IV models by IHP, and i can say that they are pretty damn good. The details are all in the right spot, and the only detail i have any real issue with on the Arrow III kits are the train designation signs, which are square pieces of plastic with lips on the ends that fit into the fluting.

However, this was because when the Arrow III kits came out, there were plans to have a basic "body shell", with the proper add-on details to make an Arrow II, III, or Silverliner IV. IHP is now making these models all have their own individual castings. In the process, he may alter the train sign to be flush.

Again, the Arrow IIs seem to be a very low priority compared to the massive amounts of SEPTA Silverliner and Subway car demands he seems to be getting.
I sent a suggest for an Arrow II to IMW a week ago. The only thing that's going hold that back is the lack of Arrow II pictures. (I found only 10 good ones online so far after researching them for a month.) The Silverliner IV pair that's out can be use a model guide since the Arrow IIs are basically Silverliner IVs with center doors and smaller roof humps. (I believe they can't run in service with a Silveliner IV tho.) Also with the NJ Transit deal over with IMW, the only thing we can hope is that two different sets of number decals are made. One for PC/NJDOT, one with NJT numbers. If anything Arrow IIs to me right now are much more higher priority then Arrow III pairs. I'm like dying to own just a pair because they were first NJ Transit trains I rode. I can only remember so little but I have a picture of me next to car 1299 in Hoboken. Like I favor those over the IIIs.
 #962637  by green_elite_cab
 
N-Trizzy2609 wrote: I sent a suggest for an Arrow II to IMW a week ago. The only thing that's going hold that back is the lack of Arrow II pictures. (I found only 10 good ones online so far after researching them for a month.) The Silverliner IV pair that's out can be use a model guide since the Arrow IIs are basically Silverliner IVs with center doors and smaller roof humps. (I believe they can't run in service with a Silveliner IV tho.) Also with the NJ Transit deal over with IMW, the only thing we can hope is that two different sets of number decals are made. One for PC/NJDOT, one with NJT numbers. If anything Arrow IIs to me right now are much more higher priority then Arrow III pairs. I'm like dying to own just a pair because they were first NJ Transit trains I rode. I can only remember so little but I have a picture of me next to car 1299 in Hoboken. Like I favor those over the IIIs.
If you only found "ten good shots" in a month, you haven't been looking long or hard enough. Also, buy some books, there are plenty of good shots in many Morning sun books and others relevant to the area.

Silverliner IVs and Arrow IIs came from the same order and were built at the same time. The only reason they are meant to work with different agencies (SEPTA vs. NJ DOT), and have different requirements. Indeed, The only major differences that come to mind are the Center doors, smaller roof humps, and center red markers (Silverliner IVs only have corner makers). I'm sure there are more, but the basic parts are the same. They were delivered with Faively pantographs, but towards the end of their operation, they could be seen with Stemmans.

Some Arrow IIs would be nice But i don't think they'll be that popular. Mike from IHP once told me that most people mostly just buy one or two models of the trains they ride to work all the time, and that those seeking to buy them as part of a commuter fleet aren't very common.

No one has taken a ride in an Arrow II (excluding those on the SEPTA work trains) since the late 90s. Whole lines of them were scrapped. The Arrow IIs were only in service about two years before the Arrow IIIs started arriving, Though the Arrow IIIs were originally meant to run on the then "re-electrified" Morris & Essex lines (from hoboken), they proved so reliable that they were retained for NEC trains, with the Arrow IIs being instead relegated to the former DL&W electrified routes. Their floors started to rot out by the mid 90s and that was it.

If there is one thing i've seemed to learn from observing other modelers, and reading the internet, is that only the past ten years or so seem to be popular with commuter modelers.

Accross the board, there is much contempt for the 1970s from which the Arrow IIs came, and few books or websites cover it, with even FEWER modeling it. Many DVDs and books that are from publishers like Morning sun cannot tell difference between and Arrow and a Silverliner, Let alone an Arrow I from an Arrow II.

In fact, i've seen books misidentify the SAME cars as two different types. On one page, there is an Arrow II misidentified as an Arrow III (OK, they do have the same body shell and its difficult to tell looking head on, despite roof humps being visible). On the very next page, there is another picture of the same Arrow II from the side and above (so everything is visible), though this time they misidentify it as an Arrow I, and even go so far as to comment that "only one of the pantographs is up". It didn't occur to anyone that this was an Arrow II Married pair, even when they noted the evidence that is a major identifying characteristic.

It may sound like i'm nitpicking, but this isn't isolated.

The bottom line is that the Arrow II does not stand out, and thats bad considering that Commuter trains like it are a Niche (electric trains) within a Niche (commuter trains) within a less popular subset of model railroading (passenger trains) in an unpopular time period (1970s-1990s), where freight operations are the most popular form of modeling (plenty of industrial short line layouts taking up small spaces these days). the kind of Mainline modeling required for a commuter train is unpopular and difficult to do in small and medium spaces.

Only us few die-hards are going to want these commuter trains, and i somehow doubt the demand for the Arrow II can come close to the demand for an Arrow III or Silverliner IV.
 #963274  by N-Trizzy2609
 
green_elite_cab wrote: If you only found "ten good shots" in a month, you haven't been looking long or hard enough. Also, buy some books, there are plenty of good shots in many Morning sun books and others relevant to the area.

Silverliner IVs and Arrow IIs came from the same order and were built at the same time. The only reason they are meant to work with different agencies (SEPTA vs. NJ DOT), and have different requirements. Indeed, The only major differences that come to mind are the Center doors, smaller roof humps, and center red markers (Silverliner IVs only have corner makers). I'm sure there are more, but the basic parts are the same. They were delivered with Faively pantographs, but towards the end of their operation, they could be seen with Stemmans.

Some Arrow IIs would be nice But i don't think they'll be that popular. Mike from IHP once told me that most people mostly just buy one or two models of the trains they ride to work all the time, and that those seeking to buy them as part of a commuter fleet aren't very common.

No one has taken a ride in an Arrow II (excluding those on the SEPTA work trains) since the late 90s. Whole lines of them were scrapped. The Arrow IIs were only in service about two years before the Arrow IIIs started arriving, Though the Arrow IIIs were originally meant to run on the then "re-electrified" Morris & Essex lines (from hoboken), they proved so reliable that they were retained for NEC trains, with the Arrow IIs being instead relegated to the former DL&W electrified routes. Their floors started to rot out by the mid 90s and that was it.

If there is one thing i've seemed to learn from observing other modelers, and reading the internet, is that only the past ten years or so seem to be popular with commuter modelers.

Accross the board, there is much contempt for the 1970s from which the Arrow IIs came, and few books or websites cover it, with even FEWER modeling it. Many DVDs and books that are from publishers like Morning sun cannot tell difference between and Arrow and a Silverliner, Let alone an Arrow I from an Arrow II.

In fact, i've seen books misidentify the SAME cars as two different types. On one page, there is an Arrow II misidentified as an Arrow III (OK, they do have the same body shell and its difficult to tell looking head on, despite roof humps being visible). On the very next page, there is another picture of the same Arrow II from the side and above (so everything is visible), though this time they misidentify it as an Arrow I, and even go so far as to comment that "only one of the pantographs is up". It didn't occur to anyone that this was an Arrow II Married pair, even when they noted the evidence that is a major identifying characteristic.

It may sound like i'm nitpicking, but this isn't isolated.

The bottom line is that the Arrow II does not stand out, and thats bad considering that Commuter trains like it are a Niche (electric trains) within a Niche (commuter trains) within a less popular subset of model railroading (passenger trains) in an unpopular time period (1970s-1990s), where freight operations are the most popular form of modeling (plenty of industrial short line layouts taking up small spaces these days). the kind of Mainline modeling required for a commuter train is unpopular and difficult to do in small and medium spaces.

Only us few die-hards are going to want these commuter trains, and i somehow doubt the demand for the Arrow II can come close to the demand for an Arrow III or Silverliner IV.
I Found other shoots but some too blurry or dark or too aged. I will check out books thought, I have one book that has two great pics of Arrow II in NJT paint entering Lyons and Bernardsville. And yet I do understand they are not popular. In 95, as a toddler was when I rode in 1299 and I barely remember it but the insides are Arrow III down. I use to can't tell the different until I figured out how each train has there front air ducts installed. Arrow III had a "hood scoop" while the Arrow II and Silverliner IV have ears. I don't blame some of the books for misnaming it any other arrow or even once they called one a Silverliner IV. If IMW makes the model in future I'll buy it, but if the Arrow III pairs become our only options, I get those instead but I'll keep my fingers crossed. Plus I'm modeling Modern SEPTA anyway, they only true use I can make, (outside of one NJT Pair) is a wire car. Speaking of wire car, I ran into 601 yesterday in Doylestown. What a beautiful Arrow II, SEPTA did a great job in refurbishing it for work service.
 #974288  by Mike@IHP
 
N-Trizzy2609 wrote:
green_elite_cab wrote:
NJTArrow2 wrote:Did anyone buy the Arrow 2s from IHPHobby?
Arrow IIs are not yet available. I did put in an order for two pairs though. I'm thinking its going to be a very long time before they will be out though. Right now, IHP seems to be doing exclusively SEPTA store work, and maybe a few other models (I think there were some trolley and ACMUs out).

That said, i have the Arrow III and Silverliner IV models by IHP, and i can say that they are pretty damn good. The details are all in the right spot, and the only detail i have any real issue with on the Arrow III kits are the train designation signs, which are square pieces of plastic with lips on the ends that fit into the fluting.

However, this was because when the Arrow III kits came out, there were plans to have a basic "body shell", with the proper add-on details to make an Arrow II, III, or Silverliner IV. IHP is now making these models all have their own individual castings. In the process, he may alter the train sign to be flush.

Again, the Arrow IIs seem to be a very low priority compared to the massive amounts of SEPTA Silverliner and Subway car demands he seems to be getting.
I sent a suggest for an Arrow II to IMW a week ago. The only thing that's going hold that back is the lack of Arrow II pictures. (I found only 10 good ones online so far after researching them for a month.) The Silverliner IV pair that's out can be use a model guide since the Arrow IIs are basically Silverliner IVs with center doors and smaller roof humps. (I believe they can't run in service with a Silveliner IV tho.) Also with the NJ Transit deal over with IMW, the only thing we can hope is that two different sets of number decals are made. One for PC/NJDOT, one with NJT numbers. If anything Arrow IIs to me right now are much more higher priority then Arrow III pairs. I'm like dying to own just a pair because they were first NJ Transit trains I rode. I can only remember so little but I have a picture of me next to car 1299 in Hoboken. Like I favor those over the IIIs.
If it's Arrow IIs you're looking for, we may finally be close to getting to them.

We have had Arrow II tooling done for a couple of years now and meant to do them awhile back, but time to do the kits became the limiting factor.

The body shells will be specific to the Arrow IIs, so the kits will have fewer parts. We used Arrow II drawings, photos and measurements to create probably the best models you'll ever get of them in HO (unless we someday did them in plastic! ;-) ).

IHP does has a lot of SEPTA work to do by the end of the year (Silverliner V display models, PCC-II trolleys, Silverliner IV restocks) so we will be focusing on that, but after that, you'll probably see some more noise from us about Arrow II kits. They will be limited in production, I can tell you that. Anyone who has our Arrow III kits knows that even a streamlined version of the kits is a job to produce.

Incidentally, IHP is now beginning to use CAD to develop our models. I do the CAD work myself and I'm getting pretty good at it. What do you think of this:

http://ihphobby.tripod.com/images/RDGRDC1.jpg

Mike Bartel
IHP
http://ihphobby.tripod.com
 #974310  by ApproachMedium
 
Mike I think your doing an excellent job! Keep up the good work and I would defiantly be interested in a pair of pairs of arrow II!
 #978053  by green_elite_cab
 
Well, not quite a passenger train, but i got a few of the Atlas Gondolas to go with my GP40-2. In particular, I like the CNJ logo left on the black gondola!

Image

Image

Image

Image


Mike@IHP wrote: If it's Arrow IIs you're looking for, we may finally be close to getting to them.

We have had Arrow II tooling done for a couple of years now and meant to do them awhile back, but time to do the kits became the limiting factor.

The body shells will be specific to the Arrow IIs, so the kits will have fewer parts. We used Arrow II drawings, photos and measurements to create probably the best models you'll ever get of them in HO (unless we someday did them in plastic! ;-) ).

IHP does has a lot of SEPTA work to do by the end of the year (Silverliner V display models, PCC-II trolleys, Silverliner IV restocks) so we will be focusing on that, but after that, you'll probably see some more noise from us about Arrow II kits. They will be limited in production, I can tell you that. Anyone who has our Arrow III kits knows that even a streamlined version of the kits is a job to produce.

Incidentally, IHP is now beginning to use CAD to develop our models. I do the CAD work myself and I'm getting pretty good at it. What do you think of this:

http://ihphobby.tripod.com/images/RDGRDC1.jpg

Mike Bartel
IHP
http://ihphobby.tripod.com

I saw your post on the commuter modeler yahoo group! Very nice on the RDC. Probably would have responded earlier but my classes have me loosing my mind. Hopefully, there will be a pair of pairs with my name on it! Any chance on a ball park price?
 #1002903  by NorEasterNick
 
If anyone has any NJT equipment for sale, please PM me.... looking for CII Cabs/Coaches.

Thanks!
 #1006950  by peanut1
 
Hello,
I am currently looking for NJT comet cars, if anybody has any they are willing to part with please PM me and we can talk.
 #1006956  by ApproachMedium
 
Nobody has them, lol. You need to go to train show and hope you can find them. I know so many friends that are looking for them right now its not funny!
 #1007038  by jetfan
 
peanut1 wrote:Hello,
I am currently looking for NJT comet cars, if anybody has any they are willing to part with please PM me and we can talk.

Hello,
We produce all of the Comets in kit form with the exception of the Comet II's which were produced in plastic several years ago.

http://islandmodelworks.com/Comets.html

-Joe
 #1007047  by peanut1
 
jetfan wrote:
peanut1 wrote:Hello,
I am currently looking for NJT comet cars, if anybody has any they are willing to part with please PM me and we can talk.

Hello,
We produce all of the Comets in kit form with the exception of the Comet II's which were produced in plastic several years ago.

http://islandmodelworks.com/Comets.html

-Joe

Hi Joe,
I actually did visit your website last night and I may consider doing that, theirs one probelm though. Theirs no decals for the cars. I think it said they were discontinued or something like that.
 #1007052  by Ken S.
 
peanut1 wrote:
jetfan wrote:
peanut1 wrote:Hello,
I am currently looking for NJT comet cars, if anybody has any they are willing to part with please PM me and we can talk.

Hello,
We produce all of the Comets in kit form with the exception of the Comet II's which were produced in plastic several years ago.

http://islandmodelworks.com/Comets.html

-Joe

Hi Joe,
I actually did visit your website last night and I may consider doing that, theirs one probelm though. Theirs no decals for the cars. I think it said they were discontinued or something like that.
NJT wants royalties that are making it not worth it for small companies such as IMW and Royal Coach who sells the plastic bus banks to use NJT's logos.
 #1007058  by ApproachMedium
 
If you are doing Comet I, II, or III cars there are decals. The decals that Microscale makes are suitable for the cars. The only cars you need special decals for are the IV V and Multilevel cars.
 #1007120  by peanut1
 
I was going to mix the cars. The only thing that wouldn't be mixed is the multi levels. I have seen the decals for the cars mentioned. I haven't seen the decals though for the comet V's or multi-levels. They use to be offered at island model works, which was the last place I saw them.
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