Virgin (fka XpressWest/DesertXpress) Las Vegas - Victorville Service

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Backshophoss
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Re: XpressWest Brightline (DesertXpress), Vegas-Victorville

Post by Backshophoss » Mon Sep 24, 2018 5:04 pm

That's the SP Palmdale cutoff to West Colton Yard,now UP's Mojave Sub,the line is south/west of Victorville into Cajon Pass.
That's UP' s busiest freight route into the LA Basin
The Land of Enchantment is not Flyover country!

mtuandrew
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Re: XpressWest Brightline (DesertXpress), Vegas-Victorville

Post by mtuandrew » Mon Sep 24, 2018 5:29 pm

ff: yes, but you’re looking at a many-mile detour down the BNSF Cajon Sub well into Cajon Pass to Silverwood, a reverse movement at CP SP465 Silverwood from BNSF to the UP Mojave Sub (Palmdale Cutoff), a reverse move again once you get to Palmdale at CP SP416 Palmdale Jct from UP to the Metrolink Antelope Valley Line. Let’s say you got all of those trackage rights on BNSF, UP, and Metrolink between Victorville and Palmdale - at some point, it has to be easier to pay the $xx million yearly for trackage rights on the BNSF Cajon Sub Main 3 (the hilly one) between Victorville and Metrolink at San Bernardino, or be resigned to a Victorville terminus for a while.

Trains recently put out a great map of Cajon, where I’m getting this info: http://trn.trains.com/~/media/files/pdf ... onpass.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

frequentflyer
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Re: XpressWest Brightline (DesertXpress), Vegas-Victorville

Post by frequentflyer » Mon Sep 24, 2018 9:43 pm

mtuandrew wrote:ff: yes, but you’re looking at a many-mile detour down the BNSF Cajon Sub well into Cajon Pass to Silverwood, a reverse movement at CP SP465 Silverwood from BNSF to the UP Mojave Sub (Palmdale Cutoff), a reverse move again once you get to Palmdale at CP SP416 Palmdale Jct from UP to the Metrolink Antelope Valley Line. Let’s say you got all of those trackage rights on BNSF, UP, and Metrolink between Victorville and Palmdale - at some point, it has to be easier to pay the $xx million yearly for trackage rights on the BNSF Cajon Sub Main 3 (the hilly one) between Victorville and Metrolink at San Bernardino, or be resigned to a Victorville terminus for a while.

Trains recently put out a great map of Cajon, where I’m getting this info: http://trn.trains.com/~/media/files/pdf ... onpass.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Thanks for the map. So even if Brightline builds a line from Victorville to the Palmdale Cutoff and build a Connecting track that turns to the west in Palmdale, they will still have to negotiate with UP. If Brightline goes that route UP is going want sidings, lots of them added.

Just do not see Cajon being a viable route just by the sheer traffic over it every day and that’s with a three line main on the BNSF.

frequentflyer
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Re: XpressWest Brightline (DesertXpress), Vegas-Victorville

Post by frequentflyer » Mon Sep 24, 2018 10:02 pm

Then there is this, not sure of the time line

https://www.metro.net/projects/high-desert-corridor/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

https://media.metro.net/projects_studie ... rt_eng.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

But ny the time the Victorville/Vegas line is done this connection may be nearing completion.
More from Metrolinks perspective


https://lasvegassun.com/news/2018/mar/2 ... rolink-co/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Backshophoss
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Re: XpressWest Brightline (DesertXpress), Vegas-Victorville

Post by Backshophoss » Tue Sep 25, 2018 12:33 am

The Las Vegas Sun is a Paywalled site,subscribe or get flooded with ads :( :P
The proposed route is isolated from Direct access to LAUS,but has a possible connection to the BNSF Transconn to Barstow
For much less $$$,run from the SCAX/Metrolink connection at Palmdale Jct to a new wye connection at South Mojave Jct to Barstow on the BNSF
Mojave Sub
This was the detour route for the SW Chief earlier this year when Cajon Pass was closed due to Wildfires.
The Land of Enchantment is not Flyover country!

Ridgefielder
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Re: XpressWest Brightline (DesertXpress), Vegas-Victorville

Post by Ridgefielder » Tue Sep 25, 2018 10:34 am

ziggyzack1234 wrote:Why did Brightline go single level? I think the answer is design, they want to go 125mph, which takes certain equipment to do. The problem is that there are only 2 FRA-compliant bilevel cars on the continent that can go that fast, and they are both commuter cars, the MARC III and the Bombardier MultiLevel. Now they could use these, but Brightline has standards of service, and I don't think bumping your head on the ceiling (the Multilevel was built to fit in the NYC tunnels) lives up to those standards.
Given that these guys appear to be very good at doing their homework, I wouldn't be surprised if BrightLine did a detailed survey of potential riders and concluded that people wanted single-level cars. Could be as simple as that. If you look at the management profiles a significant number of the execs without a railroad background are from the Hospitality industry-- i.e. super customer-focused.

Arlington
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Re: XpressWest Brightline (DesertXpress), Vegas-Victorville

Post by Arlington » Tue Sep 25, 2018 11:44 am

Single levels can have shorter dwells given more doors per seat and generally easier for elder mobility bording/alighting.

The minutes saved in dwell can be very cheap way to shave 2 minutes from each 30 minute trip segment, compared trying to make up via higher track class and faster running speeds.
"Trying to solve congestion by making roadways wider is like trying to solve obesity by buying bigger pants."--Charles Marohn

bostontrainguy
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Re: XpressWest Brightline (DesertXpress), Vegas-Victorville

Post by bostontrainguy » Tue Sep 25, 2018 1:30 pm

Arlington wrote:Single levels can have shorter dwells given more doors per seat and generally easier for elder mobility bording/alighting.

The minutes saved in dwell can be very cheap way to shave 2 minutes from each 30 minute trip segment, compared trying to make up via higher track class and faster running speeds.
Right now there are only two intermediate stops. Not much of a factor I would think.

Arlington
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Re: XpressWest Brightline (DesertXpress), Vegas-Victorville

Post by Arlington » Tue Sep 25, 2018 2:06 pm

^ yes, and it is precisely on short segments in Florida where dwell at those 1 (to eventually 3) closely spaced intermediate stops represents the bigger % of elapsed trip time.

I would agree that an LA to Las Vegas train with no intermediate stops could easily have been more suitable for multi-level equipment if there weren't already a Siemens assembly line cranking out proven single-level coaches, that brightline management knows how to buy and operate.

If the operation relies on quick turns the single levels (given more doors per floor plate) may be easier to quick-turn.

Multilevels are great for most seats per capital $ but do potentially have their operational drawbacks.
"Trying to solve congestion by making roadways wider is like trying to solve obesity by buying bigger pants."--Charles Marohn

mtuandrew
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Re: XpressWest Brightline (DesertXpress), Vegas-Victorville

Post by mtuandrew » Tue Sep 25, 2018 4:51 pm

frequentflyer wrote:Then there is this, not sure of the time line

https://www.metro.net/projects/high-desert-corridor/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

https://media.metro.net/projects_studie ... rt_eng.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

But ny the time the Victorville/Vegas line is done this connection may be nearing completion.
More from Metrolinks perspective


https://lasvegassun.com/news/2018/mar/2 ... rolink-co/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
I didn’t realize that XpressWest was planning its station so far north of downtown Victorville. http://www.xpresswest.com/project.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; the company website shows it up near the prison.

frequentflyer
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Re: XpressWest Brightline (DesertXpress), Vegas-Victorville

Post by frequentflyer » Wed Sep 26, 2018 9:13 am

Smart move to have the station north of town, makes it easier to turn west and connect to Palmdale.

electricron
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Re: XpressWest Brightline (DesertXpress), Vegas-Victorville

Post by electricron » Wed Sep 26, 2018 9:22 am

frequentflyer wrote:Smart move to have the station north of town, makes it easier to turn west and connect to Palmdale.
Additionally, they will have far more room to build huge parking lots, which they will need if everyone riding their trains will have to drive to the station.

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BandA
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Re: XpressWest Brightline (DesertXpress), Vegas-Victorville

Post by BandA » Mon Oct 01, 2018 12:26 pm

Single-level coaches are easier to design, and are better as long as they fit the platform length. Problem is high-level platforms are more expensive - especially with the ADA requirements, and have problems with freight clearance. If you are going dual-level, you should use low level platforms that give level boarding to the lower-level, aka "bi-level" coaches. Dual-level or bi-level coaches have a slightly better passenger to weight ratio than single level, but since trains are already energy-efficient due to their low rolling resistance it isn't very important. So you have to decide - high level or low level platforms? And live with the decision for 25 to 100+ years.

gokeefe
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Re: XpressWest Brightline (DesertXpress), Vegas-Victorville

Post by gokeefe » Mon Oct 01, 2018 1:59 pm

Although not 100% clear to me I believe that FRA will no longer approve low level platforms where equipment capable of serving high level platforms is operating.
gokeefe

Jeff Smith
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Re: XpressWest Brightline (DesertXpress), Vegas-Victorville

Post by Jeff Smith » Mon Nov 05, 2018 4:29 pm

An industry publication: RailwayAge.com
...
The XpressWest deal will potentially enable Brightline to link one of the most traveled routes in the country, connecting more than 22 million people living in Southern California with Las Vegas, one of the most visited cities in the U.S. Brightline quoted ridership studies as finding travelers make more than 50 million annual trips between Las Vegas and Southern California. Today those travelers are limited to traveling by air or highway; Brightline expects to make the trip in less than two hours.
...
The first phase of the corridor is expected to be built on a right of way within and adjacent to Interstate 15, traversing 185 miles with no at-grade or pedestrian crossings. Construction is expected to begin in 2019 and Brightline is planning to begin initial service in 2022.

Union Pacific and BNSF maintain mainline operations in the vicinity, including from Southern California through Cajon Pass through the San Gabriel mountains to Las Vegas, among other destinatons. It’s unclear whether Brightline, which operates on sister company Florida East Coast Railway’s track in South Florida, intends to negotiate agreements for use of those lines.
...
Next stop, Willoughby
~Jeff Smith (fka "Sarge") :: RAILROAD.NET Site Administrator/Co-Owner

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