New Hope Branch

[jfrey40535]

I don't think there is a forum for NHIR, so I'm posting a forum here for NH related questions.

Was there ever any type of signalling on this branch north of Hatboro? I had the opportunity today to drive along most of the line, and have ridden it several times and have never seen any evidence of waysides along the line. The last one I see today is north of the Street Road grade crossing, just prior to entering SEPTA territory. I assume that is the border between SEPTA and NHIR.

There is also a absence of telegraph poles along the line, so I assume such a system never existed. Even the Newtown branch, as small as that was had signals and telegraphs, so I'm curious how dispatchers communicated with trains in those days. There are quite a few passing sidings, but how did trains get their orders back then?

NHIR seems to be doing well with freight along the line. It looks like the siding to the pasta plant at County Line Road is once again open for business. There are 2 boxcars on the siding with shiny wheels which is evidence that they were placed there recently. I also assume this siding is serviced by NHIR and not CSX. I'm just curious as to why Reading sold the branch if there was viable freight, unless they didn't want to be involved with short line type freight moves.

The rest of the line is in pretty shotty condition. I don't think trains can go over 30mph on the line because of track conditions. Wonder if they are ever going to improve things.

As soon as I find my camera, I'll post some pictures I took today, although today was overcast so the quality isn't so hot. I have a half decent picture of SEPTA's old wire train in Buckingham with a huge wasp's nest on the front door. Wonder what NHIR's plan for the car is ( I know it won't be for stringing catenary).

And here are the promised pictures:


Anyone know what's in store for these cars? NHIR has been storing these here for ages. Its also too bad they chose not to hold on to their Reading heritage with the repainting of all their cars in NHIR livery. The cars look good on the outside, but its still the same 70 year old seats on the inside.

[glennk419]

I believe Conte Luna (the pasta plant) is actually serviced by CSX B745. I also saw the semolina hoppers on the plant siding yesterday. NHIR services the plastics manufacturer at Street Rd (4H Plastics?), that's who the covered hoppers that are sitting at the Street Rd siding are for. Other NHIR freight customers include Castrol / CRC in the industrial park (tank cars) and Edison quarry in Rushland (RBMN open hoppers for crushed stone).

Also, to answer your original question, I grew up in Warminster and never saw any evidence of signalling along the line beyond the approach signal at Street Road. This signal actually used to stand at Monument Avenue in Hatboro until Septa extended the line in the 70's. Many of the grade crossing signals along the line were also only installed or upgraded within the last ten years or so, most of the crossings were only protected by crossbucks until that time.

[amtrakhogger]

From what I know, the New Hope Branch was train order territory from
NH to Hatboro. I have never read of any type of signal system that was
used on that line.

[JimBoylan]

Philadelphia, Reading & Pottsville Telephone & Telegraph line was on the West side of the tracks all the way to New Hope. In 1975, a multiwire Reading Co. telephone cable ran North to the phone box on the North side of Wilson Ave., Ivyland. In 1989, the support wire did continue as far North as the 1st curve North of Bristol Rd., Ivyland. Hearsay has it that many poles North of there were salvaged about 1970. When the new passing siding between Wilson Ave. and Street Rd. Was laid about 1980, the poles and wires were removed in that area, and the phone box, with the phone removed, was moved across the street. When the new passing siding at Wycombe (the left of the 3 tracks in the 2nd photo in this thread) was laid in the early 1980s, the stumps of 2 poles were found.
There are references in some old plans to "Hall" brand signals, maybe they were controlled by the station agents.
In 1966 when Reading sold because of too much wilderness without customers, crossing signals were at Wilson Ave. and Bristol Rd., Ivyland; Swamp Rd., Rushland; Township Line Rd., Wycombe; Durham Rd. near Buckingham; Aquetong Rd. near Reeder; and Ferry St. and Bridge St., New Hope. Passing sidings were Ivyland, Grenoble, and Buckingham.

[glennk419]

Thanks for that very concise update, Jim. I also remember crossing signals at the "lower" portion of Upper Mountain Road, adjacent to Buckingham Valley station. I flattened many pennies at that spot during the days of the "original" NHIRR.

[JimBoylan]

I also remember crossing signals at the "lower" portion of Upper Mountain Road, adjacent to Buckingham Valley station.

This installation was started by NHIR in the early 1980s.

[jfrey40535]

As far as crossbuck signals go, NHIR has modernized the whole line, except for Street Road. I assume they figure the low volume that crosses the road, along with the high speed nature of drivers on that road, they're better off with the manual signals and a flagman.

Incidently, when I used to work in Ivyland, I did once witness a lunchtime move into the plastics plant there at Street Road. As soon as the train passed, a car zipped across the crossing while the lights were still flashing, and he was quickly pulled over by Warminster Police. Score one for the railroads!

By the way, has anyone heard anything about the NIMBY complaints about the trains? I remember a few years ago hearing something about how the horns were too noisy for them. Just wondering how that fizzeled out (since the trains are still running and blasting their horns).

One more thing....how does NHIR handle multiple trains on the line with no signalling? I know they use radios, but are they exempt from FRA rules or does the slow nature of the line not require advanced signalling? They do sometimes send out a steam & diesel train together for photo ops and what not. Just curious.

[glennk419]

I thought that the signals at Street Road are actually automatic but have a very short island block due to the 4H switch being literally at the edge of the road as well as Septa "end of track" running right up the switch. When the push-pulls ran to Warminster, the AEM-7 would run almost up to the crossing in order to yard a six car train. As for the NIMBY's, they're anywhere and everywhere...do your homework BEFORE you buy a house! As far as dispatching on the line, with the exception of special events like this past weekend, even when two trains are running at the same time, they're usually at opposite ends of the line. Either way, I would believe dispatching would be by train order and radio dispatch.

[jfrey40535]

I thought that the signals at Street Road are actually automatic but have a very short island block due to the 4H switch being literally at the edge of the road as well as Septa "end of track" running right up the switch. When the push-pulls ran to Warminster, the AEM-7 would run almost up to the crossing in order to yard a six car train.

Last time I rode NHIR I remember the flagman, but I forget how the signals were actuated. I thought manually. I'll tell you in 2 weeks when I ride the entire branch as it was meant to be (from Center City to New Hope with transfer at Warminster).

And all those years SEPTA's P/P's were up there, and I never got a shot of it. Probablly won't be coming back either, although some of those peak hour trains on the Warminster line are getting quite packed.

I believe Conte Luna (the pasta plant) is actually serviced by CSX B745. I also saw the semolina hoppers on the plant siding yesterday.

So CSX handles all freight south of Street Road then.

We must have crossed paths at some point....It looked like that siding was inactive for a long time as it was overgrown until recently. I was actually watching that siding waiting for SEPTA to rip the switch out. Glad Conte Luna had a change of heart. More freight can only benefit the line. Wishful thinking, but maybe Hatboro Lumber or Burpee seed will rethink rail if gas prices go up again.



Anyone know the best time to catch freight moves along the line (I know its usually after SEPTA shuts down, but does anyone know typical days?)

[glennk419]

I used to watch them park the P/P on a regular basis. With a six car train, they had to pull up pretty close to the crossing, so close that traffic would occasionally slow thinking the train was coming into the crossing. One evening, I saw one guy almost get rear-ended. I agree with you on the Conte Luna siding, it did have about six inches of rust on it for a while and bulk carrier trucks were pulled up in the same spot as the hoppers in your picture. Nice to see rail service back in there. Unfortunately the switches to Burpee and especially the lumber yard are long gone. CSX B745 typically services the line on Tuesday and Thursday nights, although that is not cast in stone. I typically hear them heading north through Roslyn around 12:45 to 1:00, right behind the last outbound Septa run. The return trip is usually around 4:00 to 4:30, last week they came back at 5:15 AM. There has also been a couple occasions where the crew outlawed and the CSX power spent the day in Ivyland, but that hasn't happened in a while.

[gcarp1]

I know it is late - usually around 3:00 - 4:00 AM when I hear them. I live in Hatboro and the horn usually wakes me. Haven't been able to pin down the days (nights) they run. It seems to vary.

George

[JimBoylan]

By 1975, the signals at Street Rd., Johnsville had only a short island circuit. The battery box for the former Southbound approach circuit was near the South end of the Camden Fiber, Sanson, Cosden, VanLeer Containers, etc. building. I don't know if the alteration was for Warminster passenger service about 1974 or Street Rd. widening about 1969. When the passing siding was built about 1981 with the switch right at Street Rd., the island was actually lengthened a rail length! We used a bent soda can to short the wires at the bootleg on the South side of the crossing to manually turn the flashers on before the train arrived so it wouldn't have to stop.
After Morristown & Erie left, the next operator had Strassburg RR train them on NorthEast Rules Advisory Committee rules, regulations, and forms. They used radios, dispatchers, Block Limits, and Forms "D" any time one train ran.
I remember a new home builder at Grenoble asking why we had trains in her residential district. I asked why she built a house in a railroad district!

[glennk419]

Jim, you are PRICELESS! We should meet at the Warminster West for coffee. We might need a few cups!

[glennk419]

I remember a new home builder at Grenoble asking why we had trains in her residential district. I asked why she built a house in a railroad district!

As for the NIMBY's, they're anywhere and everywhere...do your homework BEFORE you buy a house!

I stand by my statement.

jfrey, my apologies if we've hijacked your thread.

[RDGAndrew]

I was actually watching that siding waiting for SEPTA to rip the switch out. Glad Conte Luna had a change of heart.

I also grew up in Warminster and don't remember seeing hoppers on the siding until about 1991/92 when the blue GATX Airslides started to show up. Conte Luna actually did rip out the switch, maybe 5 years ago! I remember going by and noticing that it was completely gone, and thinking it was a shame to see the service go completely to those bulk trucks. Then, not 6 months later, there was a new frog and new switch rails on the ballast, and soon the siding was back in service! I heard (perhaps here on railroad.net) that there was a management change at Conte Luna, and the outgoing management had made the no-rail decision, but the new management reversed that. Anyone else remember this? It was surreal.