Railroad Forums 

  • LV Black Diamond

  • Discussion related to the Lehigh Valley Railroad and predecessors for the period 1846-1976. Originally incorporated as the Delaware, Lehigh, Schuylkill and Susquehanna Railroad Company.
Discussion related to the Lehigh Valley Railroad and predecessors for the period 1846-1976. Originally incorporated as the Delaware, Lehigh, Schuylkill and Susquehanna Railroad Company.

Moderator: scottychaos

 #884996  by Ponfieldpundit
 
When the Black diamond first ran, it was routed over the new freight line between Sayre, Pa and Geneva Jct. Does anyone have the date that the Black Diamond first started being routed through Ithaca?
 #885142  by TB Diamond
 
The Black Diamond was pulled off for a short period of time in the spring of 1903. When it was reinstated on 17 May 1903 both trains 9 & 10 were routed via Ithaca.

Information from research done by Richard Palmer.
 #886115  by Ponfieldpundit
 
joshuahouse wrote:Why were they bypassing Ithaca early on? I know it has never been a large city, but for the region it is, and the two colleges would provide a regular passenger stream.
According to ARCHER's book on the Lehigh Valley, the original route avoided the grades in and out of Ithaca.
 #886135  by Ponfieldpundit
 
TB Diamond wrote:The Black Diamond was pulled off for a short period of time in the spring of 1903. When it was reinstated on 17 May 1903 both trains 9 & 10 were routed via Ithaca.

Information from research done by Richard Palmer.

Thanks for the information. Per chance did Richard Palmer quote his source? I have been trying to get at that information through the Ithaca newspapers, but they don't have any back issues on line. Also would be interested as to why the train was dicontinued for a time in 1903. Any information would be appreciated.
 #886247  by Richard1
 
For seven years after its inception, the "Black Diamond" operated over the Seneca Lake, or mainline between Van Etten and Geneva. The distance from Van Etten Junction to Geneva Junction via the Ithaca branch was only 6.2 miles longer than the Seneca Lake bypass, or 62.5 miles. The running time from Sayre to Geneva via the Seneca Lake line was an hour and 15 minutes westbound and an hour and 24 minutes eastbound, and via Ithaca, two hours. The distance from Van Etten Junction to Geneva Junction on the Seneca Lake bypass was 56.3 miles and via the Ithaca branch, 62.5 miles. As state previously, the Seneca Lake line allowed for fast running of up to 70 to 80 miles per hour if the train was late.
Although this doesn't seem to have a dramatic difference in running time, the run from Sayre to Geneva was non-stop and passing through Ithaca added at least 30 minutes to the schedule. Also, Ithaca at the time appears to have been sufficiently served by about six other Lehigh Valley daily passenger trains in each direction. Connections with the Black Diamond could be made either at Sayre or Geneva.
On Feb. 8, 1903, the Trains 9 and 10, the "Black Diamond Express," was shifted over to the Ithaca branch. Westbound No. 9 arrived in Ithaca at 6:30 p.m. and eastbound No. 10, at 2:04 p.m. There was about a five minute stop for both trains. Then another change was made. On May 14, 1905, Train No. 9 was shifted back to the Seneca Lake line. No. 10 continued to stop at Ithaca. This arrangement, with minor time adjustments over the years, appears to have lasted until July 11, 1914, when both east and westbound trains returned to the Ithaca branch.. Both trains 9 and 10 then continued to serve Ithaca uninterrupted for the next 45 years until discontinued in 1959. This information is based on my large collection of timetables and news articles.
 #886265  by Richard1
 
From my research I believe the main reasons the Black Diamond initially bypassed Ithaca is because (1) the train was competing with the New York Central's "Empire State Express." (2) It made limited stops and was exclusively a parlor car train with premium Pullman fares. (3) Ithaca was already being served by a half dozen other passenger trains. The grades in and out of Ithaca were not a factor as even in the mountains of Pennsylvania, the train of four cars did not require helpers and could easily maintain speeds of 55-plus miles per hour. Here is an interesting document from which Amtrak could take lessons 111 years later:


Fast Runs Made on Lehigh Valley Railroad
By Black Diamond Express
(From American Engineer and Railroad Journal, November, 1900, P. 380)


Train No. Date From To Distance Actual Time Speed
(Miles) (Minutes) (Miles/Hour)

Distances Over 100 Miles

9 7/20/98 Sayre Buffalo 177.0 169 62.8
9 7/24/99 Sayre Buffalo 177.0 170 62.5

Distances 50 to 100 Miles

10 10/11/97 Easton S.Plainfield 50.4 48 63.0
10 10/16/97 Easton Parkview 65.6 60 65.6
10 6/6/98 Easton Parkview 65.6 61 64.5
9 1/9/99 Manchester Buffalo 88.0 85 62.1
9 3/22/99 Buffalo Manchester 88.0 83 63.6
10 11/2/99 Wende Manchester 69.0 61 67.9

Distances Under 50 Miles

9 5/15/99 S.Somerviille Landsdown 19.5 16 73.1
9 5/20/99 Laceyville Rummerfield 18.9 14 81.0
10 6/24/99 Wysox Wyalusing 16.8 14 72.0
9 7/18/99 Laceyville Wysox 26.0 22 70.9
9 8/19/99 Laceyville Homet's Ferry 15.0 12 75.0
10 10/13/99 Rummerfield Laceyville 18.9 15 75.6
9 11/3/99 Alpine Geneva Jct. 43.9 33 79.8
9 2/12/00 Hinman Geneva Jct. 44.9 37 72.8
9 2/19/00 Alpine Kendaia 34.0 25 81.6
9 3/22/00 Batavia Depew Jct 27.5 33 50.0
10 7/3/00 Homet's Ferry Laceyville 15.0 12 75.0
9 7/21/00 Alpine Kendaia 34.0 23 88.7
10 10/5/97 Musconetong Three Bridges 15.4 12 77.0
10 10/9/97 Three Bridges Bound Brook 15.5 11 84.5
10 10/13/97 Homet's Ferry Laceyville 15.0 11 81.8
9 10/16/97 Wyalusing Wysox 16.8 13 77.5
9 10/18/97 Pt. Reading Landsdown 21.9 18 73.0
10 10/21/97 Musconetcong Boundbrook 30.9 26 71.3
9 11/1/97 Wyalusing Wysox 16.8 14 72.0
9 11/11/97 Hector Kendaia 17.6 12 88.0
10 12/11/97 Towanda Laceyville 30.0 25 72.0
9 6/9/98 Parkview S. Plainfield 15.2 14 65.1
10 1/13/98 Musconetong Three Rivers 15.4 15.4 13 71.1
9 8/6/98 S.Somerville Landsdown 19.5 17 68.8
9 8/9/98 Parkview S.Plainfield 15.2 13 70.2
10 8/31/98 S.Plainfield Parkview 15.2 13 70.2
9 10/3/98 Burdett Kendaia 22.7 17 80.1
9 10/17/98 Alpine Kendaia 34.0 26 78.5
9 12/16/98 Laceyville Summerfield 18.9 15 75.6