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  • Lehigh Valley in Horseheads

  • Discussion related to the Lehigh Valley Railroad and predecessors for the period 1846-1976. Originally incorporated as the Delaware, Lehigh, Schuylkill and Susquehanna Railroad Company.
Discussion related to the Lehigh Valley Railroad and predecessors for the period 1846-1976. Originally incorporated as the Delaware, Lehigh, Schuylkill and Susquehanna Railroad Company.

Moderator: scottychaos

 #45355  by JDFCLK96
 
The Valley had a branch that left the EL yard in Elmira and headed North between Grand Central Avenue and Lake St. in Elmira Heights. It continued north to Holding Point in the village of Horseheads.

When was this trackage torn up? Did it last into Conrail? Did the LV serve any customers between Elmira and Horseheads?
 #45457  by henry6
 
better ones from others but to get you started: the LV HH branch origally was the Elmira, Cortland, and Northern and came in from the north over the hill via Erin from Van Etten where it crossed the LV and went on to Willsyville, Caroline and East Ithaca. The LV had trackage rights from Waverly in later years and the branch also went into Holding Point. CR years saw its down fall as the NC was used to access Holding Point.
See books by Archer and Caloroso for pics and histories.

 #45819  by scottychaos
 
The Huge former A&P plant in Horseheads..(across route 17 from the mall, almost)
had a short spur that served the plant..
the spur was off the Erie main, but was owned and operated by the LV!
LV trains would run out from Waverly to service the plant, probably at the same time they worked their other horseheads trackage..
the spur is still there..
but the plant has been vacant for many years..
they removed the big A&P sign a few years back..its now labeled "Chemung County regional"..something..
Scot

 #46472  by thannon
 
scottychaos wrote:The Huge former A&P plant in Horseheads..(across route 17 from the mall, almost)
had a short spur that served the plant..
the spur was off the Erie main, but was owned and operated by the LV!
LV trains would run out from Waverly to service the plant, probably at the same time they worked their other horseheads trackage..
the spur is still there..
but the plant has been vacant for many years..
they removed the big A&P sign a few years back..its now labeled "Chemung County regional"..something..
Scot
Before long they might remove most of the warehouse...what a waste.

 #47827  by scottychaos
 
thannon wrote: Before long they might remove most of the warehouse...what a waste.
really?
I hadnt heard that..
thats too bad, the building is probably just far too large to be usefull for anyone..the land is likely more valuable than the building..great industrial location! right next to a highway and rail..
maybe they will tear it down and build something new on the site?
I wouldnt be surprised..

My Dad worked there most of my childhood..from the late 60's until about '82 or '83..
he was one of the last guys working there, he helped clean the place out before they shut down..then he was out of work for 2 years! :(
tough times...(much better now though!)

Scot

 #47838  by thannon
 
:( It's what we all need- more retail space in a crowded retail area... here's a clip from the Southern Tier Economic Growth:
http://www.steg.com/recent_headlines_ne ... enter.html

Shopping center planned at A&P site
Owners say they want retail space in place of Horseheads warehouse.

By JEFF MURRAY
Star-Gazette
August 26, 2003

HORSEHEADS – The men who own the sprawling former A&P plant in Horseheads said they plan to tear most of it down and build a shopping center there instead.

Los Angeles-area industrial developers Brad Cohen and Jeffrey Stern spent millions renovating the 1.5- million-square-foot building after buying it in 2000, but say the market just isn’t there for industrial use.

On the other hand, Cohen said he has fielded numerous inquiries about retail space use.

“We continue to explore options with the county to enhance the value of the property into a better and higher use that should result in more tax revenue for the county,” Cohen said. “I would say we’re currently exploring the demolition of most of the facility and converting it to retail space. There’s just not enough demand for warehouse space in that area.”

Talks have been ongoing with Wal-Mart and several other retailers, but Cohen said there are no signed tenants yet. A Wal-Mart spokesperson didn’t return a phone message Monday.

The Great Atlantic & Pacific Tea Co. built the structure in 1965 and it was once the world’s largest food-processing plant, employing about 2,400 people. Efforts to sell and redevelop the plant since it closed in 1982 were largely unsuccessful until the current owners came along and renamed it the Chemung County Commerce Center.

The owners said they plan to demolish everything but 300,000 square feet of warehousing space currently leased by Toshiba Display Devices of Horseheads. A parking lot just to the east of the complex was already targeted for potential retail space.

If Wal-Mart relocates from down the road at Consumer Square in Big Flats, where it is the anchor tenant, that will be bad news for that shopping complex, said Horseheads Town Supervisor Bob Chapman. But he said ii will be good to finally see signs of new activity at the A&P site, which is in the town of Horseheads.

“There was quite a lull going there. I though maybe they’ve dropped it, forgotten about it,” Chapman said. “It’s still on the burner. It’s a major change for the town of Horseheads, I’ll tell you that. I’ve seen the plans and they look just great to me. I’m real excited about it.”

But other major retailers in the area are viewing the new developments cautiously.

“This is going to happen. There’s not much you can do about it,” said Benjamin Riggs, president of Arnot Realty Corp., which owns the Arnot Mall. “The question is how much will the bottle hold. There are only so many retail dollars in a small market.”

On the other hand, the new direction is embraced by local government and economic development officials, who believe it will result in a boost in sales tax revenues and jobs for the area.

“For the county, it’s an opportunity to enhance our property tax base if a major retail center comes to fruition,” said Chemung County Executive Tom Santulli. “It will enhance our retail base. Those two things for the county are very important. If this project comes to fruition, it just makes us even a larger shopping mecca for five counties.”

There is always a fear of over-saturation of retail businesses, Santulli said, but he believes the area can support another major retail center because many consumers come from outside the area to shop here.

“One-third of the sales tax generated comes from outside the county. Most of it is attributed to retail,” Santulli said.

George Miner, president of Southern Tier Economic Growth, said there’s no reason the property has to be limited to just retail.

“It’s a great site for really any kind of use. The problem has always been the building and its reuse. It’s never been the land,” Miner said. “It makes a lot of sense to look at different commercial uses out there. It’s right in the heart of where everybody wants to be. Lots of businesses will be interested – retail, hotels, banks, probably some industrial, too.”


same idea here too (pdf newsletter file): http://www.steg.com/newsletterpdf3Q_03.html

 #47901  by scottychaos
 
I really really really really hate Walmart..
they are pure evil..
they are doing the same thing in Brockport..
there is a perfectly good, somewhat new Walmart store there..
they want to abandon it, and build a NEW Walmart in a cornfield literally 2 miles away..because the current one isnt BIG enough!! :(

Geneva drained a swamp so the "much needed" store could be built..

New Paltz NY, where I went to college, has been FIGHTING for a decade to keep walmart out of their town..because they know it will destroy it!!
there are tons of small towns who donw want the thing..they are the smart ones..

in horseheads, that entire huge plaza across route 17 from the mall cant be more than 5 years old! (ok..maybe going on 7 or 8..)
and already they want to move..amazing.
im amazed the region can support what is already there..
well, I suppose all this developement is a sign that the economy is good there! people wouldnt build all this stuff if there wasnt money to be made on it..
of course, Walmarts stragety is to put everyone else out of business, so things are always good for them no matter where they go..

my question is..if no one wants the A&P site for industrial use, but its in huge demand as retail space, where are the jobs coming from that make the money that can be spent in all this huge amount of retail space??
oh yeah..the retail space is finite..as bigger walmarts open, other retail space goes away..
the net amount of retail space stays the same, walmart just gets a bigger chunk of it..thats the plan..
there is no *real* growth...

 #48308  by joshuahouse
 
I always have said that the A&P plant could make a kick ass entertainment complex, but I guess we don't have the population base. Imagine being able to set aside even 1/3 of the interior for lazertag or paint ball! The roof would be pretty cool to, but out of the question for liablity issues of course. A small movie theater/regular theater section. A few thousand sq feet for model railroading, some sort of computer lan place. If there was any immagination in the local administration they could have found something for it.

BTW Scotty, I assume that all the former A&P stores closed about the same time as the plant? I know there was one in Waverly, and Corning and Hornell, and presumably others as well.

 #48318  by thannon
 
It all happened before I was old enough to care about it...

I would hazard a guess that the county/city government would love to see some kind of tax paid on this land- the thought of multiple storefronts would no doubt make them giddy.

Likewise the facility would seem to be well placed for either a trucker-hub or large distribution center-type facility. Full highway access and more or less center between Bingo and Buffalo....but I guess it wasn't to be.

Tom H>

 #55949  by chnaus
 
Back to the original question.
I found a record stating Elmira-Horseheads 5.1 miles, service discontinued 12-4-1975.

 #56612  by JDFCLK96
 
Thanks chnaus.

So the rails were probably taken up just before or just after the formation of Conrail. And the LV must of used EL/PC trackage to access holding point between Dec '75 and C-day?

 #62029  by chnaus
 
Take a look at the link below and compare it with the 1953
map.
I was thru there 11-27-76 and the LV street crossing
nearest the loop track was paved. The street crossing just
east of Elbridge Lake in Elmira was not,but,it was level with
silt and the rail was still in, at least to the whistle post on
either side.
I find it hard to believe that the line was in use the year before.
Was it possible they were using the PRR via HO to service that
location ??

After Agnes did PC even have operations located in Elmira,or
did they run over from Corning ??

http://docs.unh.edu/NY/elmi95ne.jpg
http://docs.unh.edu/NY/elmi53ne.jpg

 #64958  by chnaus
 
What was Holding Point ?? I found it on the 1932 Sanborn
maps.

 #110336  by chnaus
 
JDFCLK96
In your initial post you mentioned Holding Point,north of Horseheads.
PRR records show it existing in 1945, as the Elmira Holding and
Reconsignment Point. There were 2 connections 1.5 miles apart and BTW
at 0.3 mi. toward Horseheads a connection with the LV RR.

What exactly was its function ??
Who owned it ??

regards
chnaus

 #110371  by joshuahouse
 
Holding Port was some sort of Military Facility, munitions I think so it was federal government property. It was decommisioned years ago and I think the town of Horseheads owns it now either Fed Ex or UPS has space leased in there but they don't use the tracks of course.