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  • NS to rebuild LV in New York?

  • Discussion related to the Lehigh Valley Railroad and predecessors for the period 1846-1976. Originally incorporated as the Delaware, Lehigh, Schuylkill and Susquehanna Railroad Company.
Discussion related to the Lehigh Valley Railroad and predecessors for the period 1846-1976. Originally incorporated as the Delaware, Lehigh, Schuylkill and Susquehanna Railroad Company.

Moderator: scottychaos

 #518088  by Otto Vondrak
 
Lehighton_Man wrote:I remember reading a while back, that NS had a plan to rebuild the Lehigh Freight Main to use as their westernly NY connection, and that they even had Welded-rail-trains, (or WRT's if you preferre..) lined up in Buffalo for the project. but something happened, and the project was canceled.
Sean, I'm curious. Where did you read this? You have to be careful what you read on those crazy internet forums.

-otto-

 #518443  by TB Diamond
 
Scot:

You are absolutely correct and thank you for the clarification. Having worked in the railroad industry for several years, I tend to use railroad direction in many of my posts.

 #518601  by Otto Vondrak
 
I didn't read anything about NS rebuilding the LV through NYS, I did read some people speculating on NS purchase of the Lehigh Line, the former LV main from Jersey City to Sayre. Regardless, anything you would read about rebuilding a line like that is pure railfan rumor and someone's wishful thinking. Railroads don't just decide to lay tracks one day and cancel it the next. Especially on a right of way they don't own and has been devoid of tracks for more than 25 years! It would be a billion dollar transaction, and those don't happen quietly. You'd be hearing from every homeowner up and down the line if that was the case.

-otto-

 #518631  by scottychaos
 
Otto Vondrak wrote: You'd be hearing from every homeowner up and down the line if that was the case.

-otto-
Not to mention the homeowners whose homes are now built directy ON the ROW! there is at least one just west of the Geneva passenger station, and probably more elsewhere on the line.

(I always wondered if they have any problems with ghost trains.. the ghost train would have to run straight through their house! :wink: )

Scot

 #518635  by pumpers
 
To be precise, I was responding to this (about Sayre yard and the route to the Scranton/Wilkes Barre area, which could seem credible, not rebuilding all of the LV in NY).
JoeCollege wrote:In fairness to Sean, I seem to recall reading here about a year or so ago about the NS rehabbing the LV from Sayre to Wilkes-Barre or where ever it ends in that area, including a class yard or something at Sayre.

The logic at the time was to utilize their own tracks and bypass the payments to CP as well as any congestion in Binghamton.

I also thought the line from WB to Mehoopany had been sold to RBMN but I am too lazy this morning to look that up.
[/quote]

 #518751  by Lehighton_Man
 
Yeah Scotty, i saw that too, and i couldnt but help think to myself: "dont they ever get the feeling of a Ghost Drag rolling through their Kitchen?
I wouldnt be Surprised if The people that own the homes in that subdivision are railfans. haha.
As for the Sayre Project, it seems like a likely idea that NS would do such a project. And getting the through-line to pittston, would only allow for massive expandsion.
So, In theory, it would be an Economically smart idea to rebuild the LV Main through NY, but financially difficult, and problematic, due to all the people most of Railfans dis-like: NIMBYs. (myself included.) im sure nobody wants to hear an NS drag stomp through Geneva at track speed. Oh, wait, they aready do. Just not at Track Speed. :P
Who knows. With NS's GIMME IT! ITS MINE! type of plan, you never know, NS could be planning something.

In a different world, you'd think that once the NS had the Lehigh Line under its belt, that it'd make it a Trans-Con type route, since it already races on the water-level with CSX out of Buffalo to Erie. if they connected those, Good Lord, NS Trains would be so frequent, it'd be crazy.
But hey, it would be cool to see atleast a big train ply the LV rails again.
(and then, NS wouldnt have a choice but to run LV Heritage Units, hehe..:D)
Cheers.
Sean

 #518943  by TB Diamond
 
Wow, would it ever be financially difficult to rebuild the old LVRR MT Van Etten Jct.-Buffalo. Highway over/underpasses to rebuild, miles of r/o/w to reconstruct, every bridge in Geneva to replace, houses to relocate (that one just west of Geneva is about where Lake Int. had been), Genesee River trestle to be rebuilt to name a few projects. Do not believe that it would be a viable consideration for NS or any other railroad company.

 #519005  by Otto Vondrak
 
Sean, here's a good rule of thumb to follow... if it sounds fantastic, unusual, or impossible, it's probably a railfan rumor or joke.

Let's move on to some more production conversation, shall we?

-otto-

 #521022  by lvrr325
 
In 1993 or 1994 NS made a bid to take over Conrail that did not succeed. The rumor that went around at the time was that once they took over NS would rebuild the Lehigh Line from Waverly to Allentown with CWR, the rumor claimed they had rail trains staged and ready to go, and they would use that route for Buffalo-NY traffic because it was the shortest route. No one mentioned anything about clearances with the tunnels on the line.

I heard the rumor second hand as it came from CR crews working the line, back when Conrail still owned it 100% and ran a daily through train from Allentown to Corning or Buffalo.

I won't say it would be impossible to rebuild the LV from Buffalo to Van Etten Jct. but just to replace track alone would be over $1,000,000 per mile. Bridges that don't need replacement would need to be rehabbed from 32 years of no maintenance (and what 25 more years of very minimal maintenance before that?). The property would have to be repurchased from a multitude of property owners. So assuming you have a billion dollars to use to do all that, you'd have to plan to at least double that to fight all the NIMBYs for the entire 160 miles or so.


So, sometime around 2110 you might run your first train.


I mean, look at the DL&W cutoff in New Jersey to see how hard it is to replace a line - that's nowhere near as long, hasn't been abandoned as long, and all they do is get a new study about it every couple years.
 #521162  by Matt Langworthy
 
pumpers wrote:http://forums.railfan.net/forums.cgi?bo ... 1159320800
As a participant in the disscussion in the link cited by pumpers, I am curious as to how Sean read a possible rebuilding of the former LV between Sayre and Buffalo. There was a pretty basic agreement among us that NS would use the existing Erie/EL route between Waverly and Buffalo. Nobody at rf.net seriously thought any of the LV would be rebuilt, although it did (and does) seem obvious for NS to use the remnants of LV that are still in operation east of Sayre. Why would NS want to relay 160 miles of the LV when it had already begun the process of upgrading the Southern Tier Mainline?

 #521258  by ricebrianrice
 
I am not real knowledgeable about the LV, but why does Norfolk Southern not use the LV east of Waverly?

Thanks

 #521311  by scottychaos
 
ricebrianrice wrote:I am not real knowledgeable about the LV, but why does Norfolk Southern not use the LV east of Waverly?

Thanks
they do..

NS owns and operates the Southern Tier Main (former Erie and EL)
between Buffalo and Binghamton.
(they own it East of Binghamton, but its leased to NYSW.)

then at Waverly/Sayre the former LV runs North to Ithaca, and up to the powerplant on Cayuga lake.

then from Waverly/Sayre compass south (LV East) they own and operate the LV to Mehoopany PA, where the R&N takes over the LV main.

Scot
 #521428  by Matt Langworthy
 
NS operates a daily Buffalo-Allentown transfer in each direction, so it uses the R&N between Mehoopany and Lehighton, and then its own rails to Allentown. Sections of this route alternate between ex-LV and ex-CNJ. I can't help but wonder if NS rues CR's decision to sell the Mehoopany-Lehighton segment to the R&N but that's a subject for another thread.