LV mainline abandonment and salvaging

[nydepot]

As I understand most book that have been written on the subject, the LVran their last trains on 3/31/76. The line through WNY was not taken into Conrail. But, I have heard from a few people that CR did run a few trains on the LV main after 4/1/76. Maybe these were final cleanup trains? One person mentioned (they were a CR employee) riding over the Genesee River bridge west of Rush, NY.

So, a few questions:

1) Did CR run any trains on the LV main after 4/1/76 in Western New York?

2) What is the official abandonment date of the LV from Van Etten Jct to Buffalo?

3) When was the large chunk from Victor to Buffalo ripped up?

Thanks,

Charles

[BR&P]

The last through train I KNOW of was ...LV2?..on the afternoon of the 31st. I have heard rumors of an LV4 very late that evening but have not seen anything positive.

There was a local which outlawed at Rochester Junction that night - it went east to Manchester the following day as far as I know. Power was an RS3.

There have been claims on various forums that there were through trains operated after 3-31-76. As far as I know nobody actually saw or photographed them. I was a CR employee at that time and did not hear of any such train, although if it involved LV employees on the former LV main I would not have been involved. I'm very doubtful but conceed it IS possible.

[nydepot]

You've probably explained what I've heard of then. For example, the outlawed train that went to Manchester the next morning would have technically been a CR train. And while there were no through trains, some trains did operate afterwards to clean up. Thanks.

Charles

[Matt Langworthy]

So, a few questions:

1) Did CR run any trains on the LV main after 4/1/76 in Western New York?

2) What is the official abandonment date of the LV from Van Etten Jct to Buffalo?

3) When was the large chunk from Victor to Buffalo ripped up?

I may have seen a clean-up train near Odessa in the late summer of '76. It looked like a general merchandise train to me (boxcars, gondolas, etc) but it may have been bad-ordered cars that the LVestate was collecting for final disposition. I should mention that I was 7 at the time so my memory may be a little "off". As I have learned from other posts in this forum, CR never owned or operated the western end of LV, except for a few short segments.

According to Mike Bednar's Lehigh Valley: Wyoming & Buffalo Divisions, the ex-LV trackage west of Van Etten (except for those CR segments) was ripped up in 1977. I don't know where the rails went but the LV estate sold the signals to the Maine Central.

BTW, Bednar's book is a great look at the diesel years of LV. It has been both exhilarating and sadly nostalgic to read it and look at the pics, knowing this is the 30th anniversary of LV's last summer.

[chnaus]

Although use of the main from Niagara Jct to Van Etten was discontinued
with the advent of Conrail(except Victor-Shortsville),rail removal took at
least 3 years.

Van Etten - Odessa,---16.4mi,12-77
Odessa----- Kendaia,--30.0, --??
Geneva-----Shortsville,14.0,--8-78
Victor-------Roch Jct,---20.5,--1978
Roch Jct----Caledonia--13.0,--1977
P&L Jct------Batavia----16.9,--1978
Batavia-----Depew-----27.0,--1979

The salvage crew on the section from P&L to Batavia told us that all
the ties they were removing were going to be reused on LV track
in the Cortland area.

CR serviced Batavia via LV/Nia.Jct until the new connector was
built east of Batavia.
This location was the site of the first Niagara Jct.

[BR&P]

Chnaus, one typo in your post - Victor to Rochester Jct is just over 10 miles, not 20. I knew what you meant!

[nydepot]

chnaus,

Thanks for the info. I knew you had it as you've come through in the past. Thanks again.

Charles

[Matt Langworthy]

Geneva-Shortsville would've been ripped up sooner, but CR wanted to build a connector track between the Auburn Road and the segemnt that became ONCT in 1979.

I think Kendaia-Odessa was removed before Odessa-Van Etten becuase CR apparently ran a local between Odessa and Van Etten for a year or two until the state subsidy ran out. Also, my family attended a yearly jazz festival in Hector (east side of Seneca Lake) in the late '70s, and I remember being very disappointed to find out the tracks were gone.

[Cactus Jack]

Looking over Stephan Koenig's book published by Morning Sun "Trackside Around Buffalo 1953-1976" there are some nice photos taken on March 31, 1976 showing the last trains at Buffalo (pp 65-68).

At 3:43pm LV4 went east past Niagara Jct. with 505,509,507.

Now at 9:10pm the COJ-32 came off the Niagara Branch into Niagara Jct. with 322,321,323. Where did COJ-32 run to from there ??? Was this the last eastbound over the mainline to Sayre, or was the LV4 the last ??
I am not familiar with LV operations and train symbols to know what the COJ guy was all about.

[Matt Langworthy]

I've heard that an LV freight outlawed near Manchester during the evening of March 31st and actually finished its trip to Sayre on April 1st. Although I thought I saw several trains the LV main somewhere between Cayuta and Odessa after 4/1/76, my memory is probably confused- unless I saw a salvage train or perhaps a local.

[TB Diamond]

The last eastbound train to operate in western NY on 31 March 1976 was the COJ-32 (C&O/Jersey-32). This ran lite out of Niagara Falls and was delayed by a PC train on the Penn Central at Lockport Road. Stopped to pick up cars at P&L Jct. and operated to Sayre, traversing track not covered by CR. The last westbound train was ME-1. This did not clear Blacksmith Int. prior to 22:30 account power problems. There were no thru trains on ex-LV trackage Van Etten Jct.-Buffalo/Niagara Falls after 01 April 1976, rumors notwithstanding. The RM-2 was in Manchester yard at daybreak, 01 April 1976 with Alco RS2 #217, 34 cars and a caboose.
ConRail operated some of the ex-LVRR via a LDL (Low Density Line) subsidy from New York State. Lines included were Buffalo-Batavia (last trip 29 June, 1978) and Van Etten Jct.-Odessa (embargoed early December, 1977). This line segment was served on Thursday evenings only by SI-7, which would cut off at Van Etten Jct. and take cars to Odessa (Cotton-Hanlon).
The CWR between Odessa and Ordnance Int. was taken up begining in August, 1978. The first train of empty ribbon rail cars departed Geneva on the morning of 21 August, headed for MP 306. On August 31, 1976 the first train of CWR was pulled from MP 306 to Geneva.

[Cactus Jack]

What train was RM-2 ?

[TB Diamond]

Last line of my previous post should read 31 August 1978, not 31 August 1976. RM-2 (Rochester-Manchester-2) was the eastbound return of the Manchester local turnaround freight which operated out of Manchester yard to Rochester Jct. then on to either Limon or Rochester as business demanded. This job was authorized to operate to P&L Jct. on dispatcher order. When the job did go to P&L Jct., many times it was to pull Lake Ridge (Milliken Station) coal off the B&O interchange and spot it to the stub track (old MT 2) west of the diamond for pick up.

[TB Diamond]

Reference to "Limon" should have read "Lima".

[TB Diamond]

ConRail officially abandoned the Odessa Industrial Track (former Lehigh Valley MT Van Etten Jct.-Odessa Station Switch) on 16 December 1977 (reference Atlantic Region Lehigh Division Bulletin Order No. 1-71). Salvage operations did not begin until the early summer of 1978.