• Consists

  • Tell us where you were and what you saw!
Tell us where you were and what you saw!

Moderator: David Benton

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  by Gilbert B Norman
David Benton wrote:Who was the other guy , Mr Norman , excuse my knowledge of american presidential candiates , id take a quess at Kennedy ?
Lyndon B Johnson; 36th US President; successor as Vice President to JFK after the Nov 22, 1963 assassination. Elected to full term November 1964 (defeating Barry Goldwater); did not seek reelection for second term and was succeeded by Richard Nixon Jan 20, 1969

  by Gilbert B Norman
OK let's go back to the Holiday season of 44 years ago. We are standing on the platform at "Old Penn" to observe the arrival of what follows:

Florida Special NB 12/31/62

GG1 4915
FEC Dorm St Johnsbury
ACL Coach 209
Diner Fitzgerald
Coach 217
Diner Winter Haven
7BR 2DR Blue Bird
Humming Bird
4-4-2 Savannah River
RF&P 10-6 Hanover County
ACL Diner Newark
10-6 Osceola County
FEC 6BR-Lng Oleander
ACL 4-4-2 Manatee River
10-6 Polk County
  by Ocala Mike
Bet that GG-1 didn't even break a sweat pulling 15 cars up from DC. Kept lots of car handlers and cleaners busy at Sunnyside Yard over New Year's Eve when that thing crossed the East River for servicing!

Ocala Mike

  by Gilbert B Norman
ACL #88 Florida Special Jan 29, 1967 (consist recorded at Miami; rode MIA-Wash)
Power "sorry 'bout that" (beyond the platform)
ACL Bagg-Dorm 107
Coach 235
Diner Tarboro
Recreation Car Winter Park
10-6 Berkley County
6BR-Lng Ponte Verde Beach
Diner Tampa
SRY 11BR Royal Court (formerly 5BR-Obs)
ACL 7BR 2DR Humming Bird (gotta love it: DR's were A&B - over the wheels)
Rice Bird
PRR 4-4-2 Imperial Road
ACL 10-6 Polk County
C&O 11 BR Monticello
ACL Blunt End Tavern Obs 253 (DH? I don't recall any beverage service here)
L&N 5BR-OBS Royal Canal (Miami Richmond)

Of interest should be the extent the accomodations were "weighted' towards two person rooms. I was in Roomette #6 Polk County.

What a way to go forty years ago.
In the winter of 1977 there was a landslide on CN's ICR (Intercolonial) route to the Maritimes near Rimouski, Quebec. The line was closed for several months until the track bed could be stabilized in the spring. During that period the Ocean was rerouted onto the NTR via Edmundston, NB but the Scotian remained on the ICR with the trains stopped at Rimouski and Riviere-du-Loup and the passengers bused between.

It was 30 years ago this week that I rode the Scotian. Train departed Halifax at 17:15 and arrived in Rimouski at 05:48. Bus transfer to Riviere-du-Loup. Then departing there at 08:15 and arriving into Montreal at 15:00.

Here’s the consists:

VIA-CN #11 “Scotian” Halifax-Rimouski January 25, 1977
6776 FPA4
6870 FPB4
6781 FPA4
8102 Baggage
2189 Pelee Island Sleeper
5497 Coach
753 Café Lounge
5474 Coach
5725 DayNiter
1342 Diner
2314 Elan Lounge
1176 Greenway Sleeper

VIA-CN #11 “Scotian” Riviere-du-Loup-Montreal January 26, 1977
6778 FPA4
6861 FPB4
6780 FPA4
9626 Baggage
2092 Hay River Sleeper
5184 Coach
3024 Coach Snack Lounge
5489 Coach
5701 DayNiter
1367 Diner
1089 Cape Tormentine Sleeper Buffet Lounge
1165 Green Court Sleeper
5283 Coach
5291 Coach
433 Dinette
5428 Coach
1120 Elcott Sleeper

  by David Benton
i wonder ,would that consist wouldnt have changed all that much up until the arrival of the renaisance equipment ?

David Benton wrote:i wonder ,would that consist wouldnt have changed all that much up until the arrival of the renaisance equipment ?
The Scotian was discontinued in October 1979 but it essentially became the ‘new” Atlantic which acquired the Scotians equipment and numbers (11 & 12) when the former CP train (which ran across Maine, USA) was extended from Saint John to Halifax.

The Scotian’s equipment was VIA’s former CN “Blue” fleet. The new Atlantic and Ocean gradually obtained the xCP Stainless Steel cars thru the ‘80s, running with mixed Blue and Stainless consists until the first fully HEP Stainless Steel consists appeared in October 1992. The last mixed Blue and Stainless steam-heated consist ran in January 1993.

The Atlantic was discontinued in December 1994 but the Ocean remained a Stainless HEP consist until the first Renaissance equipment appeared. In fact one Stainless HEP consist (minus the Park Car) is running this winter on the Ocean filling in for a Renaissance consist which is in the shop for modifications until April.

  by Gilbert B Norman
While to date I have only submitted consists that have been complete with both locomotives and dates observed, this month I will make an exception. The consist that follows is B&O #5 Capitol Limited observed at Washington Union Station during July 1966. I have no record of the exact date.

What is significant is that this consist likely represents the last hurrah of the private sector overnight train. At that time, the B&O was pursuing their "go for broke" passenger initiative (headed up by future Amtrak CEO Paul H Reistrup) AND there was an airline strike that reduced capacity by some 50%. Since the B&O was out hustling for passengers, they likely enjoyed a greater traffic increase than did PRR which simply took a "we're there if you want to ride" approach.

Sadly, when the strike ended. the cancellations came in as quickly as did the reservations when the strike started. Shortly thereafter, the B&O "threw in the towel" so far as the passenger initiative went, although I do recall learning that they put on a "splash" for the A-Day Eve Capitol Limited.

B&O #5 Capitol Limited, July (unk), 1966 (observed Wash Un Sta)

Locomotives (unk)
Head End cars (if any; unk)
B&O RPO 41
5551 Dome Coach Sky Dome
5502 Coach Gary
5504 Martinsburg
10-6 Shenango
New Haven 14-4 Wilson Point
B&O Muskingum
24-8 Slumberland
Kitchen Dorm 1093
Full length Diner 1092
16-4 Robin
10-6 Kokosong
5BR-Obs Metcalf

There was no Dome Sleeper in consist (B&O "--Dome"); at that time I beleve those cars were on lease to the ACL. They were subsequently sold (for $1.00 each) to a private concern Hamburg Industries, refurbished, and leased back to SCL (also for $1.00 a year plus "revenue sharing") and later sold to Amtrak. I should however properly defer to others more familiar with the SCL Hamburg transaction.

Gilbert B Norman wrote:ACL #88 Florida Special Jan 29, 1967
Power "sorry 'bout that" (beyond the platform)
ACL Bagg-Dorm 107
Coach 235
Diner Tarboro......

Florida Special NB 12/31/62
GG1 4915
FEC Dorm St Johnsbury
ACL Coach 209
Diner Fitzgerald......
Thanks for the memories!!...... Not of the Florida Special......but of ACL Diners “Tarboro” and “Fitzgerald” (and Greenville)

These cars were leased by CN in the summer of 1967 and were the usual diners on the “Cabot”. A new through train between Montreal and Sydney operating on the NTR via Edmundston, N.B.

They were exotic cars for a kid who only saw RDCs prior to the inauguration of the Cabot. I also remember the smell of coal smoke at the station.......the diners had coal fired stoves.

(PS: The cars came from the ACL but would have been returned to the SCL.......Seaboard Coast Line was formed on July 1, 1967 and I still have that bright orange cover timetable)

  by Gilbert B Norman
MILW Train 104 April 14, 1962 (rode 2-104 Marion IA to Chicago)

1-104 "City of San Francisco' Section

UP E-9 940-A
E-9 956-B
Bagg 5706
RPO 5900
Dorm 6002
Coach 5436
MILW 657
SP 2489
UP Diner 4813
Lounge 6205
4-4-2 Imperial Bird
10-6 Pacific Falls
Pacific Scene
SP 9042

2-104 "City of Los Angeles" Section - additional cars for physician;s group (walked through them; heard a lot of "Doctalk")

UP E-9 955-A
Bagg 6318
MILW Dorm 1713
UP Cafe 5009
Dome Coach 7002
Coach 5419
10-6 Pacific Island
11 BR Placid Harbor
5BR-2C-2DR Ocean Sands
Dome Diner 8001
Dome Lounge 9014
4-4-2 Imperial Gate
SP 10-6 9101
CBQ Silver Swan (begin tour party cars)
WP Silver Swallow
UP Diner 4811
ATSF 4-4-2 Nankoweap
6BR-2C-2DR Oraibi
UP 4-4-2 Imperial Flower
Dorm 5601

Oh for the memories of happier days when UP treated all with pride and in style.

  by Gilbert B Norman
With my Mother (not a fan but just liked trains), I rode this Empire Builder "all the way' Sea to Chi originating June 13, 1963'

GN F-7 368A (Seattle Havre
CBQ E-8 9959A Havre-Chi
GN 356A
Sea-Chi GN RPO 40
Baggage 269
Dorm 1203
Coach 1213
Dome Coach 1324
Buffet 1244 White Pine Lake
Minot-St Paul Coach 1128
Sea-Stp 1224
Port-Stp 1226
Port-Chi Dome Coach 1334
Sleeper 1273 Pend Oreille River
1377 State Pass
Sea-Chi Diner 1253 Lake Union
CBQ Dome Lounge 1392 River View
GN Sleeper 1274 Boise de Sioux River (Mother's)
1378 Firebrand Pass (mine)
1197 Grand Coulee

It didn't seem to bother GN to add and cut cars en route. Train was on time or "waiting for time' all the way.

Sleeper configurations: (GN just couldn't stick with "garden variety" 10-6 and 4-4-2)

--Pass 6R 5BR 2C
--River 4Sec-1C-3BR-7Dx
--Coulee 4BR-1C-6Rm-Obs
  by Gilbert B Norman
Here is a "double header going out to Mr. Haithcoat", who again I had the pleasure of joining for Breakfast in Atlanta last month:

Louisville & Nashville #5 Humming Bird
Sep 21, 1962 (rode Cinci-Memphis)
L&N E-6 771
L&N Hwt Baggage1462 (Cinci-Mem or NO)
Lightweight Coach 3264 Cinci-NO
6-4-6 Sleeper Pond Pine
Lobbolly Pine
Hwt Diner 2724 Cinci-Nashville
6BR-4Rm-4Sec Fir Range (Hwt rebuilt 8Sec 6BR)
Coach 3211

L&N 78, The Flamingo Cinci-Atlanta Observed Cinci Sep 21, 2962
L&N E-6 777
NYC Bagg 8572
L&N Bagg 6571
CofG Coach 654
Hwt Coach
Hwt Bagg

The Cleveland/Detroit Florida market was clearly 'dead' by that date. SRY Royal Palm was reportedly nothing more of a train at that time and may even had been a victim of SRY's 'State line to State line' train off strategy.

  by Gilbert B Norman
Let's go North of the Border and observe the consist of D&H #61 Montreal Limited departing Montreal Windsor (I rode). You really must appreciate that the English heritage of the Canadian Pacific was there. Windsor to me resembled a "mini-Waterloo':

September 17, 1963

Alco RS-3 (the D&H passenger locomotive prior to their PA's)
Alco RS-3
D&H Coach 206 "light heavyweight" blt 1939
239 heavyweight
227 heavyweight
NYC Budd 6BR-Lng 10628 Laurel Stream
10-6 10139 Putnam Valley
PSCM 10144 Penobscot River
Budd 10126 Castle Valley

Lest we forget that there was also a competitive NY Penn Sta-Montreal Central Montrealer; also with three or four sleepers during this era, but the NYC-D&H was by far the most direct route. If NB you had a room on the Engineer's side, you had great views of Lake Champlain, but either side on the Montrealer would do when X-ing @ 10mph on a trestle.

  by David Benton
Seems to me like Montreal to New York was the one that got away on me , during my travels in North America . i opted to go Montreal / Toronto /Nigara Falls /Buffalo / Boston . Possibly that there was no good connection To boston was the reason for my decision . Had Railroad net been in existence back then , no doubt i would have chosen the Montreal / Albany / Boston route .

From the Can-Pass-Rail List, Here's the consist of VIA's Canadian
Train #1, Departing Toronto on June 26, 2007

6434 - F40
6439 - F40
6438 - F40
8605 - baggage
8140 - coach
8131 - coach
8119 - coach
Skyline 8502 - cafe dome lounge
Drummond Manor - sleeper
Cornwall Manor - sleeper
Stuart Manor - sleeper
Skyline 8503 - dome lounge
Empress - diner
Abbot Manor - sleeper
Osler Manor - sleeper
Jarvis Manor - sleeper
Château Lauzon - sleeper
Château Bienville - sleeper
Château Brûlé - sleeper
Skyline 8504 - dome lounge
Emerald - diner
Carleton Manor - sleeper
Craig Manor - sleeper
Butler Manor - sleeper
Tremblant Park - dome-observation-sleeper

3 Coaches
4 Domes
2 Diners
12 Sleepers

It was reported there were 121 coach and 201 sleeping car passengers departing Toronto.
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