Trans Siberian Express in Western Europe (1976)?

[MissisquoiValleyRR]

The western terminus of the Trans Siberian Express is usually given as Moscow. My question is: was there a train in Western Europe that connected in Moscow that would have been using the same name in 1976?
Any details welcome!

[David Benton]

The only source i have is a Thomas cook contiental timetable from 1985 .
There is no train west of Moscow with that name in that timetable .
I belive the usual route for western tourists was to go through Finland , rather than face the red tape of travelling through Eastern European countries . all that has changed now of course .

[george matthews]

The western terminus of the Trans Siberian Express is usually given as Moscow. My question is: was there a train in Western Europe that connected in Moscow that would have been using the same name in 1976?
Any details welcome!

There are still through trains to Moskva from western Europe. You can go from Berlin. The wheels are changed at the frontier. But there is no necessary connection. The Trans-Siberian leaves from a different station. Most people would want to have a stopover in Moskva before going on.

[David Benton]

i would say a stopover in Moscow would be most welcome . even railfans would probably have had enough after 8 days on the train .

[MissisquoiValleyRR]

Thank you both for your replies.

I have read a report, the veracity of which I am attempting to ascertain, that in May 1976, there were through cars travelling between Paris and Moscow via northern West Germany and that the train was known as the Trans Siberian [Express].

I remember seeing wagons marked "Moscow" in Koln when I was in western Europe in 1982 and I remember there being at least some "name" trains then (I travelled aboard the "Orient Express" between Paris and Munich).

I spent some time on the Deutschebahn site yesterday trying to figure out how far from Moscow one can travel directly today. Frankfurt is what I came up with.

[george matthews]

Thank you both for your replies.

I have read a report, the veracity of which I am attempting to ascertain, that in May 1976, there were through cars travelling between Paris and Moscow via northern West Germany and that the train was known as the Trans Siberian [Express].

I remember seeing wagons marked "Moscow" in Koln when I was in western Europe in 1982 and I remember there being at least some "name" trains then (I travelled aboard the "Orient Express" between Paris and Munich).

I spent some time on the Deutschebahn site yesterday trying to figure out how far from Moscow one can travel directly today. Frankfurt is what I came up with.

Yes, there used to be through trains from several destinations. I have seen carriages from the USSR in Hoek van Holland for the Ost Express. I have also been on the train from Paris, though I was going only as far as Berlin. Now, however, the best jumping off point is Berlin. But you may also get trains from Wien, Praha, Budapest, beograd, Sofiya, Bucaresti and other east European capitals.

In 1976 there were certainly through trains from Paris, Hoek van Holland. In 1982 I got the ferry from Harwich to the Hoek. There I joined a train that had carriages from the USSR (two I think) and was going via Berlin and Warszawa - this was before the Berlin wall came down. I think they were special carriages designed for the western European trains. The bogies could be unshipped at the frontier between Poland and the USSR for replacement. In fact I went into the USSR carriage to talk to the people there. But I was going only as far as Osnabrueck, to change to a train going to Denmark.

A year after the wall came down I got the train from Paris to Berlin. That too had USSR carriages in it. What I noticed then was the poor condition they were in. I went to talk to the people there and ask them about what the new name of Leningrad would be. The carriages were dirty and needing maintenance. I think the operatos had lost their motivation now that the USSR was dissolving. It was August of the year when Gorbachov had been nearly deposed and saved by Yeltsin. By December of that year the USSR was no more.

Since then the long distance trains have been cut back to Berlin on that route. And long distance trains no longer meet the ferry at the Hoek (or Calais).

[MissisquoiValleyRR]

I found that wikipedia pages entitled "List of named passenger trains" and "Famous trains". Although wikipedia attempts to be comprehensive, including trains past and present, there is no mention of the "Ost Express".

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_na ... ger_trains
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Famous_trains

To make sure that I'm understanding George correctly, would he please confirm that: he is quite sure that, in 1976, there was no "Trans Siberian" operating west of Moscow but that there was an "Ost Express" , running from Moscow as far as Paris? Thanks for this and for all of the other input.

[george matthews]

Thank you both for your replies.

I have read a report, the veracity of which I am attempting to ascertain, that in May 1976, there were through cars travelling between Paris and Moscow via northern West Germany and that the train was known as the Trans Siberian [Express].

I remember seeing wagons marked "Moscow" in Koln when I was in western Europe in 1982 and I remember there being at least some "name" trains then (I travelled aboard the "Orient Express" between Paris and Munich).

I spent some time on the Deutschebahn site yesterday trying to figure out how far from Moscow one can travel directly today. Frankfurt is what I came up with.

I have in front of me a Thomas Cook timetable for 1982. That year I took a train from Hoek van Holland that had a Moskva carriage on it. It went via Rotterdam Hanover and Berlin It left Hoek at 19.36

It doesn't seem to have had a name, other than Hoek van Holland-Moskva

There was another train via Oostende. It was called the Ost-West Express.
It left Oostende at 17.07 and went via Brussels and Aachen.

There was a train from Paris to Moskva. It also was known as the Ost-West Express. I think that was a train I took a few years later, to Berlin. It went from Paris to Aachen where probably the Oostende section was added.

I made two long distance train journeys in 1982. I travelled from southern England by ferry to Cherbourg, then the train to Paris and then a train from Paris to Algeciras. I had to stand in the corridor from Paris to Bordeaux, and snoozed across Spain to Madrid. I had a sleeper from Madrid to Algeciras (I was going to Morocco). The return was a sleeper from Algeciras to Madrid, a day free in madrid and a sleeper from Madrid to Paris (with the wheels changed at the frontier).

The second journey was from London to Stockholm via Harwich. I had a sleeper on the ferry and a stayed a few days in Denmark. On the way back I had a sleeper from Stockholm to Copenhagen and then a day train back to Rotterdam and the Hoek.

[MissisquoiValleyRR]

Found mention of a Paris-Moscow express running in 1976 on-line at:http://www.kasprzyk.demon.co.uk/www/PostWarBios.html.

"To ease the foreign debt Gierek was forced to increase the price of “luxury” consumer goods, and, in June 1976, food prices by an average of 60%. There were major demonstrations and violent strikes; the workers of the Ursus plant tore up railway tracks and seized the Paris - Moscow express..."