Ramifications of "Brexit" for railways

[george matthews]

I agree completely that the UK is much stronger with Scotland than without. I was very relieved when they voted to remain in the UK. It makes it even more surprising that the UK has been so cavalier about the importance of Scotland. The Scots may well now decide that they are stronger as part of the EU than they are as part of the UK, and who could blame them?

The UK pays the EU much more that it gets back

Figures about net payments are highly disputed as they are made up not just of headline sums which are explicitly in or out, but all sorts of other payments, services and influences, including some which are difficult to put a figure on. The leave campaign has already had to admit that the figures they used during their public campaign were lies.

The "Leave" campaign told a huge number of lies. I think Cameron is to blame for not taking the vote seriously enough - and indeed for calling the referendum at all. His campaign was very poor and failed to convince a section of the voters about the problems that Leave will cause. The above statement was one of their lies. I don't think leaving will have much effect on railways. Continental gauge trains will continue to reach London via the High Speed link - but no further. I doubt there will be much change to the amount of freight.

[johnthefireman]

Continental gauge trains will continue to reach London via the High Speed link - but no further. I doubt there will be much change to the amount of freight.

I may be wrong, but as far as I know there are freight routes with continental loading gauge well beyond London, including some of the major sea ports, and more are being created whenever lines are upgraded.

[David Benton]

Some posts have been deleted by admin. I cannot see them once deleted, so i do not know why.

[philipmartin]

I didn't think you had, marster, after I've been buttering you up with bovines and piglets riding the rails in the farm moving south video. But it is a bit of a mystery.

[David Benton]

Actually , it was your post that was deleted , Philip !. And 1 of John's. George's was only edited.
But I am looking forward to watching your "bovine " video later , when I have time.

[johnthefireman]

Thanks, David, for clarifying. It's just a bit confusing when you're reading through a conversation and you see a non sequitur which has resulted from the post it refers to being deleted.

[NH2060]

If they build a high speed link alongside the existing route, or on a new alignment, it should be Standard gauge, to allow for future cross channel links.

If one ever coughs up the cash for it!

The Unionists in NI do ask for closer relations with the British mainland. However, there are now complications. How it will develop is very uncertain. Theresa May perhaps has the intention of staying in the EU while giving the impression she wants to leave. The big question in NI is about the Border with the Republic. At present there is freedom of travel. There are few checks at the crossing. (I can remember when there were actual checks, with a border official getting on the train and walking through.) If Britain is outside the EU and Ireland remains in, will the border have to be reactivated? I have seen no mention of this problem so far.

If there's one thing both the Nationalist/Republican and Unionist/Loyalist camps wholeheartedly agree on it's that the return of a "hard border" would be the worst thing possible. It's bad enough that there is legitimate fear that violence could very well erupt again (The Troubles really haven't gone away over the past 18 years, it's just been reduced to a much reduced state of violence) though I do find it hard to believe that it could get catastrophically bad. One conduit that in many ways keeps the two countries together is the railway line.


In the end though the 3 Billion Euros would probably be better spent on revitalizing abandoned routes in the Republic and the North including Letterkenny-Derry. The Dublin-Belfast line really only needs a 3rd track in places here or there south of Dundalk and north/east of Portadown for added frequencies where IE and NIR commuter rail traffic eats into time slots and perhaps additional equipment. I really don't see how a new ROW and/or electrification would be a worthwhile investment.

[Jeff Smith]

Admin: I've been keeping an eye on the thread as well as David, who does a terrific job. I don't always have time to post or PM. Anything that's purely political, regardless of viewpoint, and has nothing whatsoever to do with railroads is being deleted by me or David. That includes those posts that are only tangentially about railroads which to me are thinly disguised attempts to post political opinions. Again, it has nothing to do with viewpoint. We're just not politics.net, we're railroad.net.

I've got enough politics this year to last me a life time!

Please don't distract from the true rail ramifications. I don't care if Cameron took it seriously or not. That's not related to railroads. We've said this a few times.

Thanks,

Jeff

[johnthefireman]

Thanks, Jeff. I moderate another (much smaller) railway forum, so I appreciate the work that you, David and others are doing. I suppose we all get carried away occasionally, so it's good that you're keeping a watchful and impartial eye open.

[dowlingm]

In the end though the 3 Billion Euros would probably be better spent on revitalizing abandoned routes in the Republic and the North including Letterkenny-Derry. The Dublin-Belfast line really only needs a 3rd track in places here or there south of Dundalk and north/east of Portadown for added frequencies where IE and NIR commuter rail traffic eats into time slots and perhaps additional equipment. I really don't see how a new ROW and/or electrification would be a worthwhile investment.

Letterkenny-Derry isn't happening. Donegal is one of the most topographically challenging places in Ireland to build a railway and the old rights of way are not fully intact - I did some Google Earth tracing a while back. Even if you throw enough $ at it, there's the issue of depopulation which has left far fewer people to support services than in rail's heyday.

Between the politics and the necessity to coordinate two governments, it's hard to see significant improvement in Belfast-Dublin. The Enterprise stock is finishing a refit and they now have APUs rather than unreliable HEP but what they actually need is to be supplemented with DMUs to add frequencies with the push-pull stock being targeted at the times when most business traffic boards. But that's been true for years and neither government seems interested in pushing that, and both rail companies are owned by parents which also own bus subsidaries which operate the route.

[Jeff Smith]

Thanks, Jeff. I moderate another (much smaller) railway forum, so I appreciate the work that you, David and others are doing. I suppose we all get carried away occasionally, so it's good that you're keeping a watchful and impartial eye open.

No worries.

[Semaphore Sam]

Well now. It may now be that the UK is in the "Front of the Line" in the US, if not the EU. Include the possibilities of deals with the rest of the Commonwealth, and other individual European countries, well, choose the "Sick Man of Europe" (EU), or the rest of the world. George, your call, for the health of the UK railways. Sam

[David Benton]

You might have to explain your post a bit more , Sam, I'm not sure what you are saying.
I think getting anyone outside the USA to comment on the USA election will result in their reply been deleted , if that is what you are referring to.

[george matthews]

Well now. It may now be that the UK is in the "Front of the Line" in the US, if not the EU. Include the possibilities of deals with the rest of the Commonwealth, and other individual European countries, well, choose the "Sick Man of Europe" (EU), or the rest of the world. George, your call, for the health of the UK railways. Sam

I have no idea about the effect of Trump on Britain. He used to come to Scotland to peddle one of his hotel and golf complexes. There has been a lot of opposition to his damaging the environment. His mother came from Scotland. I don't think he had any effect on railways.

[philipmartin]

David- I hope that you are well and safe in Palmerston. I'm sorry to give you and Jeff more political stuff to delete.

Mod note :I am back in Paeroa , and did not feel the earthquake(though apparently it was felt in Auckland, 120 k.m north of here ).

No one mention Trump. It can only lead to censorship by me or Jeff.