Privately Run Montreal - New York Overnight Service via CP and Amtrak

[Jeff Smith]

Private operation certainly seems to be all the rage lately: MontrealGazette.com

It seems almost like a Pullman service.

Former CAQ MNA aims to launch overnight train service between Montreal and N.Y.C.

Montreal entrepreneur François Rebello says he has lined up $10 million in private-sector funding necessary to launch the service
...
The largest remaining hurdle is obtaining the approval of Canadian Pacific, which owns a large stretch of the rail lines and runs freight service on the tracks.
...
Rebello’s plan is to purchase used sleeper cars and refurbish them, and run them nightly in both directions between Montreal and New York, leaving at 8 p.m. and arriving at 9 a.m. The train would have three passenger cars holding 120 passengers, plus another two service cars, including a dining car and bar. The sleeper cabins would hold one to two passengers, and showers outside of the cabins would be available. The trains would hook up with Amtrak trains in Albany, N.Y. that would take them into Penn Station in New York City.

The cost of a return trip would be roughly $400 Canadian, a price Rebello said compares favourably with flying and even to driving when gas, tolls and parking in New York City are factored in. Savings on New York hotels, where modest rooms can start at $200 Canadian a night, are also a selling point. The service could be useful for smaller businesses looking to save money on one-day business trips. Rebello sees a burgeoning market as well among environmentally conscious millennials who are less likely to own cars and prefer to avoid plane travel.
...

[charlesriverbranch]

If he can't get a CP buy-in, maybe he'd consider running it via CN and NECR through VT, MA, and CT.

[ebtmikado]

Running it via the NECR would certainly add a couple hours to the running time, which is not good for people who want to do business that next morning.

[Allouette]

To use the CN/NECR route he would need Amtrak's cooperation south of Springfield, just as he will need it south of Albany. The 1960 timetable via CN/CV/B&M//NH allowed a little under 12 hours between Montreal and New York. With today's stretches of 79 and 110 MPH track it ought to be doable in less. The track between St. Lambert and the US border is most likely the biggest obstacle. CP's line is in better shape, but is (now) freight only.

[SouthernRailway]

3 sleepers and 2 nonrevenue cars doesn't sound viable.

When passenger trains made money (until the '60s), weren't the profitable ones a lot longer than that?

[mtuandrew]

It was up to 14 hours or so via New London and the then-Central Vermont. (now the New England Central) http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPi ... x?id=43363

I wonder if M. Rebello has heard of Iowa Pacific Holdings’ experiences with the Hoosier State and Pullman Rail Journeys? Best of luck to you, Frankie, Amtrak doesn’t play well with others.

[ExCon90]

I don't see any mention of border formalities. Could he be assuming it'll be just like at the airport? Or will CP not be the "last remaining hurdle"?

[NIMBYkiller]

I wish him luck. I've been arguing that a lot of LD schedules should be reconfigured to offer an overnight service between major cities (some of the schedules already line up nicely, others not so much). NYC-Montreal is a perfect one. When I drove for Greyhound in 2011, we had multiple overnight departures to Montreal (I think 3 or 4 on Fridays?) and frequently sent at least 2 buses with each schedule (often times 3 buses, sometimes even 4). God help you if you caught each other at the border though, and it happened all the damn time. The economic demographic will surely be different, so Greyhound ridership doesn't entirely translate into overnight train ridership, but there's definitely some crossover and it still shows there is a large movement of people overnight between the two points.

[DutchRailnut]

before everyone gets a woody , keep in mind , no railroad has to let others use their tracks other than Amtrak .

[Albany Rider]

Mr. Rebello has been trying the get his overnight service to NYC and to Boston for several years without success. Since nothing has been heard about the Boston line for some time, it is probably dead.
The newspaper article says he has $10 million in "private sector" funding so it must be time to try again. He is reaching out to folks in the Albany area business & rail community to build support for the idea, but no public support has poped-up.
Mr. Rebello has run a couple of non-sleeper entertainment coach demonstrations tacked on to the daily Amtrak Adirondack.
People who were approached in the earlier start up "campaign" have heard the $10 million private funding statement before.
While I think the Adirondack line needs another daily service, I am not hopeful.

[Backshophoss]

IT will depend on the US customs setting up shop in Gare Central and getting a fenced off platform there,the Vermonter/Montrealer
(when extended) IS the better choice for Sleeper service to NYC/Wash DC.
68/69,the Adirondack is a day train to NYC/Montreal,D&H/CP may not want a night train on that route.

[mtuandrew]

$10 million isn’t going to get you far when you have not only Amtrak private car rates, but CP haulage rates. And does he think these cars are going to move in a regular freight consist? It’ll have to be a special CP move each and every day ALB-MTL, or Amtrak, or VIA if they are allowed to operate south of the border.

[jonnhrr]

An article about this I saw in the Montreal paper said the train would only run to Albany and passengers would have to change trains there. That doesn't sound too viable especially since the Empire corridor trains don't have baggage cars (except for the Adirondack and Maple Leaf) so passengers are going to have to shlep their baggage onto an Amfleet coach.

[Engineer Spike]

There could be plenty of patronage on this corridor, and Amtrak is trying to focus on these regional routes. As mentioned there are several obstacles. CN has it’s turn job to Rouses Point, the NS trains which occupy the 2200-0200 rough time slot. What is the schedule of the NECR interchange job?

D&H freight trains run overnight. They have 4-6 trains in this window. This leaves the morning for MOW, and afternoon for 68 and 69. If the train ran via CP, the train would have to arrive at Delson before 0600. By then it would certainly jam up commuter traffic on the Adirondack and Westmount subs.

One other question is about which intermediate stops could be viable. Plattsburgh is a must with the students. It’s all probably moot. I’m sure CP would like a good sum for the loss of freight train flexibility.

[Backshophoss]

Will his Private cars meet the clearance standard for NY Penn? (clear MN and LIRR 3rd rail) and put up with Amtrak's Daily inspection
as was done to IP's equipment on the Hoosier State?