• Portageville Bridge Replacement, Future Tier Traffic

  • Pertaining to all railroading subjects, past and present, in New York State.
Pertaining to all railroading subjects, past and present, in New York State.

Moderator: Otto Vondrak

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  by blockline4180
 
conrailsharedassets wrote:. Most of the traffic running on the line now, short of maybe 12/13T (which could technically run the Buffalo Line, but cant) have to or logically would run the line. I don't believe for a second that Norfolk Southern would drop its trackage rights agreement with CP on the D&H south of Binghamton. In fact I would look for many great things to come for all of the D&H from Montreal to Kase. Just my 2 pennies.

Well, I personally wouldn't mind if NS put the 12T/13T on the Hudson Secondary, taking the back way through the Poconos into Scranton!! Seeing heavy mainline freight crawling through Cresco would be pretty darn neat!! :P
  by conrailsharedassets
 
SecaucusJunction wrote:
conrailsharedassets wrote:
Although this is a very interesting point you make, I HIGHLY DOUBT Norfolk Southern would throw away the D&H routing between CP Kase (Sunbury) and Binghamton via Scranton. It just doesn't make any sense. So the NS trains already running the line are just gonna stop running the D&H routing and switch to an alternate routing? What route? The Buffalo Line is no longer a through route because of its severe grades, lack of clearances, etc. While the D&H although it has some grades is not nearly as severe, cleared for everything and a straight shot (easily the shortest and fastest route aside from CSX's routing) from the Southeast to Upstate, New York, New England and Canada. NS has many improvements planned for the route and plans on running more trains in the future. I'm not sure why the line was omitted on there PANYNJ expressrail program, but I'm sure it wasn't a hint that NS isn't committed to the line. Most of the traffic running on the line now, short of maybe 12/13T (which could technically run the Buffalo Line, but cant) have to or logically would run the line. I don't believe for a second that Norfolk Southern would drop its trackage rights agreement with CP on the D&H south of Binghamton. In fact I would look for many great things to come for all of the D&H from Montreal to Kase. Just my 2 pennies.

Jim


No, I would never think that NS would drop the D&H routing for trains. It will always be very important for north/south traffic and provide a connection between PanAm and Crescent Corridors. The map was specifically talking about traffic originating at PANYNJ. It is the only current route that is not also on the future route map...

I also noticed that the top of the Buffalo Line isn't even on the map anymore according to NS. I guess we can see how NS views that line...
I kinda figured thats not what you were getting at (at least I was hoping thats not what you were getting at!) It's still very interesting that Norfolk Southern would Omit the Sunbury Sub route from any future route plans. The likelyhood of any traffic originating out of places like the Port of Philadelphia taking an all D&H routing via Kase/Scranton and Binghamton to access points north is very high. But then again I'm not sure if Philadelphia is included in the PANYNJ plan so that may play a role in the map.

As for the Buffalo Line, Norfolk Southern has pretty much erased any affiliation they may have with the line, short of collecting rent. They said when they stopped running it as a through route that they were completely done with it as a route.
  by conrailsharedassets
 
blockline4180 wrote:
conrailsharedassets wrote:. Most of the traffic running on the line now, short of maybe 12/13T (which could technically run the Buffalo Line, but cant) have to or logically would run the line. I don't believe for a second that Norfolk Southern would drop its trackage rights agreement with CP on the D&H south of Binghamton. In fact I would look for many great things to come for all of the D&H from Montreal to Kase. Just my 2 pennies.

Well, I personally wouldn't mind if NS put the 12T/13T on the Hudson Secondary, taking the back way through the Poconos into Scranton!! Seeing heavy mainline freight crawling through Cresco would be pretty darn neat!! :P
HAHAHA now that would be a GREAT routing for the 12T/13T trains! Although I wouldn't hold your breath on that 1! You should be plenty happy with all the ALCO action on the Good O'l Deleware Lackawanna!
  by SecaucusJunction
 
conrailsharedassets wrote:
I kinda figured thats not what you were getting at (at least I was hoping thats not what you were getting at!) It's still very interesting that Norfolk Southern would Omit the Sunbury Sub route from any future route plans. The likelyhood of any traffic originating out of places like the Port of Philadelphia taking an all D&H routing via Kase/Scranton and Binghamton to access points north is very high. But then again I'm not sure if Philadelphia is included in the PANYNJ plan so that may play a role in the map.

As for the Buffalo Line, Norfolk Southern has pretty much erased any affiliation they may have with the line, short of collecting rent. They said when they stopped running it as a through route that they were completely done with it as a route.

PANYNJ is Port Authority of NY and NJ... they only have jurisdiction of about 25-30 miles radius from the Statue of Liberty... so port of Philadelphia would not be included in this.

As far as I know, this only includes ports from Newark to Staten Island...
  by Matt Langworthy
 
conrailsharedassets wrote: Most of the traffic running on the line now, short of maybe 12/13T (which could technically run the Buffalo Line, but cant) have to or logically would run the line. I don't believe for a second that Norfolk Southern would drop its trackage rights agreement with CP on the D&H south of Binghamton.
I'm pretty sure 12T and 13T now have drop-offs and pick-ups at Gang Mills, so the Buffalo Line is no longer an option for them.
  by SecaucusJunction
 
I don't really think the Buffalo Line is good for any trains anymore...
  by blockline4180
 
SecaucusJunction wrote:I don't really think the Buffalo Line is good for any trains anymore...
And please give us your reasoning on that.. Have you seen the actual documents or evidence as to why NS does not think it is feasible to ever use that line again??
  by SecaucusJunction
 
Well here's the system map... directly off their website. According to them, the line dead ends a ways north of Sunbury. No trackage rights, no haulage rights...

http://www.nscorp.com/nscportal/nscorp/ ... ap2008.gif
  by conrailsharedassets
 
Hi Everyone,

It looks like the Portageville Bridge is going to be seeing even more increased traffic! CP has signed on to start running unit ethanol trains across the Southern Tier from Buffalo to Binghamton then north to Albany and onto the CSX River Sub to New Jersey. The first of these trains ran overnight last night with CP 8777, CP 9756 and CP 9680 with 80 ethanol loads and spacers. CP's symbols for the trains are CP 626 (Loads East) and CP 627 (Emptys West). For now these trains will be as needed, but look for numerous of them a week to be operating in the future. This is a brilliant effort by CP's marketing team to eliminate CSX from as much as the haul as possible and collect as much of the profits from the trains as they can.

These new trains are originating off the DM&E in Mona, Iowa, so look for some very intersting power coming east on the 626 in the future.

NS is currently operating these trains as second sections of CP trains NS 38T/39T. Using symbols NS W8T/W9T. This is great news for the southern tier as it adds some more colorful traffic to the line.

Jim
  by SecaucusJunction
 
Why would it take that crazy round-a-bout way to get to NJ instead of it's normal D&H routing? Is Scranton that congested?
  by century430
 
Its good to hear and see more traffic but the routing is ludicrous. This is where they should've talked to NYSW for forwarding to points east from Bingo to turn over to CSX down in NJ. What is the ultimate destination of these new trains destined for NJ?

Jim Rowland
  by northjerseybuff
 
Is there a partnership with CSX for this train? It should run east down the tier to NJ...Long routing is not time efficient. I hope NS really does use the east end in the future! this train would be a perfect candidate
  by cr9615
 
There are plans to route this more directly in the very near future...
  by century430
 
What exactly does "more directly" mean?
  by cr9615
 
century430 wrote:What exactly does "more directly" mean?
Via Scranton.
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