New York State Roundhouses

[RussNelson]

Remsen, NY, turntable only, probably RW&O, possibly Mohawk & Malone or predecessor. Pit still there.

When I was there in 2007, I spoke to someone doing some MOW. He said that they plan to restore the turntable to operation.

[nydepot]

LV Cortland
42°35'21.97"N, 76°11'10.61"W

Charles

[scottychaos]

Charles,
I think I figured out why we arent exactly in snyc!
it looks like you are marking the center of the roundhouses..
while I am attempting to mark dead-center on the turntable pit..

that explains why we didnt quite match up with Erie-Rochester and Kingston..
(I think the dirt pile I linked in an earlier post is the Kingston turntable pit..confirmed by Paul)
while it looks like you marked the Kingston Roundhouse..
so we could both be right! just with slightly different cooridinates..

are you marking the roundhouses rather than the pits?

Scot

[Matt Langworthy]

Kanona & Prattsburgh - Prattsburgh - turntable with single stall enginehouse, historic.
(probably also a turntable at Kanona then?)
(what about the B&H?)

I don't think there was a turntable at Kanona. The K&P was a cash-poor operation during its entire 70 year history of operations. Based on the few photos I've seen of Kanona, I think the K&P interchanged with the Erie on a wye.

The B&H had a turntable in Bath. It is shown on a map in Keuka Lake Memories as being on the the curve where the B&H mainline turned to meet the Erie. I have seen no pictures of that turntable. Neither Kueka Lake Memories nor Images of America: Hammondsport and Keuka Lake shows a picture of a turntable at Hammondsport. I spent alot of time imn the waterfront RR yard in H'port during my younger days and there is no evidence of a turntable, so I doubt one ever existed.

[westshore94706]

Additional Regards Utica Roundhouses:

New York Central - Observer Dispatch featured the NYC roundhouse at Culver ( I believe) with many photos and some descriptive text - I believe this appeared in the Sunday Feb 8 1948 Paper. The date may not be correct - my copy came from Fulton Postcards website and is pretty much illegible - of anyone has a good clear copy, would be nice to see. This article is followed by another on March 7 1948 which describes centrals efforts to construct a dustproof house within the existing engine terminal in the "east Utica yards. Finally, the Utica Master Plan of 1950 (available http://www.uticamasterplan.org/multimedia.html, click on link titled "Other Transportation Modes") discusses the extension of Culver ave northward and the requirement for bridge designers to coordinate with railroad's design engineers to avoid disruption of the New York Central Engine Terminals - the proposal is to locate the new bridge close to the throat of the yards. This portion of the master plan also reviews all of the rail service in the area - interesting slice of planning history.

New York Ontario And Western at Canal Branch - Taibi's "Rails Along the Oriskany" has some photographs showing the Canal Yard facilities - images on page 207 show the coaling tower, roundhouse and misc structures + yard throat. Page 271 shows the Canal branch roundhouse and turntable - operational but close to the structures demise. Another image on the same page shows the expanse of the canal yard, looking north.

Related, the image on page 200 of Taibi's book shows the lay of the land at the west end of Utica - the centrals engine terminal ( assume the adirondack division terminal) is active with lots of equipment and all trackwork intact. The O+W roundhouse is gone but the trestle and grade to the connection with lackawanna and New York Central is still in place ( as is the coal shed parallel to O+W); the lackawanna freight house is active, the north side lined with 2 tracks full of cars. A very interesting photograph of Utica at what appears to be the height of its industrial/economic development - urban renewal and the arterial are not yet on the scene. The years have truly been unkind to Utica.

Rails Along the Oriskany is a good book - the photos are interesting the photographic reproductions are not always as crisp as one might wish - does a great job in recording the history of the O+W in the area - anyone interested in local rail history should have this book on their shelf.

[westshore94706]

The 1907 Plat maps for Uitca show your 1st NYC RH. They don't show a RH near Culver (sewage plant). They show the other NYC RH just NW of the O&W off Potter. It's right under the northbound on-ramp to I790. BTW, they moved a lot of cemeteries in that area to build all the highways.

The O&W Canal Yard only shows a water tower, no TT or RH. Any idea when they were added?

DL&W is shown.

NYC on left, O&W on right near Potter:

Taibi's " Rails Along the Oriskany" states that the decision to relocate the Utica roundhouse to Canal Branch occurred in 1916, after years of complaints. Apparently there were years of local allegations/complaints that the company was storing locomotives outside of the house, emitting smoke and cinders on the local houses. In 1910 the public service commission found that " existing turntable could not accomodate larger locomotives that the railroad was now operating in the city" A new,longer turntable was constructed but outdoor storage continued.

The new roundhouse at canal was 5 stalls with 75 foot turntable.

[nydepot]

I'm marking the TT when it's really easy to see and it was right up against the RH, otherwise I'm marking the RH. The topic is RH and its details (built, removed, stalls, etc). The turntable length is one part. And Russ asked if the RH was extant, not if the TT still is. So the thread is all about roundhouses. I've found many cases where the RH is fairly far from the TT.

Charles

Charles,
I think I figured out why we arent exactly in snyc!
it looks like you are marking the center of the roundhouses..
while I am attempting to mark dead-center on the turntable pit..

that explains why we didnt quite match up with Erie-Rochester and Kingston..
(I think the dirt pile I linked in an earlier post is the Kingston turntable pit..confirmed by Paul)
while it looks like you marked the Kingston Roundhouse..
so we could both be right! just with slightly different cooridinates..

are you marking the roundhouses rather than the pits?

Scot

[scottychaos]

Thanks everyone!
List is updated..(back on page 4)

Question..where is this one? (town/city?) - DL+W - Oriskany Boulevard - (historic)

and im not totally clear on the Utica situation..
if someone could compile an "all time Utica" list, I would appreciate it!

thanks,
Scot

[Kuyahoora Valley]

and I think we should definately include the "turntable only" locations too..
Genesee Junction.
Canadian Pacific has a new one in operation at East Binghamton..built it new 10-15 years ago..
and im sure there are others..

Seemed like "turntable only" were also of interest

So the thread is all about roundhouses.

Just wondering if turntable only locations are desired or not. I think they are of interest because many could or could not have ever had a roundhouse, leading to questions. Also, if you look at some turntables, it may not be evident that there once was a roundhouse (DL&W Utica for example, road construction has obliterated the area where the roundhouse once stood)

[Kuyahoora Valley]

Question..where is this one? (town/city?) - DL+W - Oriskany Boulevard - (historic)

and im not totally clear on the Utica situation..
if someone could compile an "all time Utica" list, I would appreciate it!

I think West Shore captured the Utica situation pretty accurately here (Oriskany Blvd (Utica) was just south of the roundhouse):

New York Central - north side of mainline at point where branch to Remsen/Thendera splits ( opposite O+W yard)
New York Central - north side of tracks, opposite Culver Ave ( near the current location of the water treatment plant)( historic)
O+W - Water street (historic) - near Potter Street
O+W - Canal Yard (historic) - near current Burrston Rd overpass
DL+W - Oriskany Boulevard - (historic)

[scottychaos]

and I think we should definately include the "turntable only" locations too..
Genesee Junction.
Canadian Pacific has a new one in operation at East Binghamton..built it new 10-15 years ago..
and im sure there are others..

Seemed like "turntable only" were also of interest

So the thread is all about roundhouses.

Just wondering if turntable only locations are desired or not. I think they are of interest because many could or could not have ever had a roundhouse, leading to questions. Also, if you look at some turntables, it may not be evident that there once was a roundhouse (DL&W Utica for example, road construction has obliterated the area where the roundhouse once stood)

yes, we are including "turntable only" locations!
in most cases, it is generally known if the location once had a roundhouse or not..
usually not a major issue to figure it out..maybe for some really obscure locations it might be a question, but in general its pretty well known..

Scot

[scottychaos]

I think West Shore captured the Utica situation pretty accurately here (Oriskany Blvd (Utica) was just south of the roundhouse):

New York Central - north side of mainline at point where branch to Remsen/Thendera splits ( opposite O+W yard)
New York Central - north side of tracks, opposite Culver Ave ( near the current location of the water treatment plant)( historic)
O+W - Water street (historic) - near Potter Street
O+W - Canal Yard (historic) - near current Burrston Rd overpass
DL+W - Oriskany Boulevard - (historic)

Thanks!
I think I have it now.. 5 total Utica Roundhouses..
I just wasnt sure, because there was a lot more Utica conversation after that list was posted..

Scot

[nydepot]

Just wondering if turntable only locations are desired or not. I think they are of interest because many could or could not have ever had a roundhouse, leading to questions. Also, if you look at some turntables, it may not be evident that there once was a roundhouse (DL&W Utica for example, road construction has obliterated the area where the roundhouse once stood)

I agree on TT only locations and have included some. I disagree with Scot's answer of everyone generally knowing where there was a RH. I've learned of some RHs just in this thread I never new of. Some places, like in Buffalo had TTs but never a RH, even though there were storage tracks around the TT.

I guess we need some consensus about what to mark, RH or TT, and what if the two are far apart?

And should I go back and get the additional TT in some places I skipped? For example, Cooperstown had a RH & TT, which I marked, but they had an additional TT south of that complex by a half a block or so. I skipped that one.

Charles

[scottychaos]

I agree on TT only locations and have included some. I disagree with Scot's answer of everyone generally knowing where there was a RH.

well..not "everyone"..but usually "someone".
just from this thread, it seems most of the "turntable only" locations are known to be turntable only..
I havent really seen many question marks around that..

so even though it might not be "common knowledge"..it seems the person who gives us the "turntable only" location
is pretty confidant it was "turntable only"..

sure, there will be some questionable sites..but we are all pretty good at digging for the facts!

and sure, just for the sake of completeness, IMO I think we should include every known turntable..
and I have started listed turntables with a "non-roundhouse" enginehouse..there arent many, but there are a few..

Scot

[nydepot]

Just out of curiosity: What constitutes a roundhouse? Some have talked of engine houses and not a roundhouse. Wiki says they are all roundhouses. 3 or more stalls and the back wall has to start to "curve" around? Anything (1 or more stalls) that's around a TT?

Charles