• Uplifting Rochester News?

  • Pertaining to all railroading subjects, past and present, in New York State.
Pertaining to all railroading subjects, past and present, in New York State.

Moderator: Otto Vondrak

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  by scharnhorst
 
[quote="BR&P"]I've got a better idea. Who needs New York City anyway? Why all the fuss, spending, rate comparisons, and angst about going there? I have been there on ONE trip, going and coming back, to change planes at LaGuardia. On the trip home we flew in over the harbor, I saw the Statue of Liberty and the Empire State Building. There! Been there, done that, cool! No desire to get within 100 miles of the place again. It was a Saturday night, 7:30PM, traffic jams worse than we have here at rush hour everywhere I looked down from the plane. Someone above mentioned triple digit cost to park your car. So why would anybody care to put up with that? quote]

Got with in 60 miles of NYC On a train and refused to go any farther I won't deal with them.

I've also changed planes at JFK twice won't ever do that again the people are vary rude to many minorities working there that don't speak a lick of english at the airport most are Arabs or Puerto Ricans, Cubans, and Italians.
  by railwatcher
 
Now your talking BR&P!

Alot of folks were upset with the Ren Square project or now its demise, I could never see that downtown bus terminal there, and so far from the Amtrak station. Monroe County should be looking for a combined station Bus/Rail somewhere in Henrietta or Brighton where they can access both, its close to the colleges, the airport and the highway networks and is a people friendly location. A good use for the West Shore. Theres alot of options along the route and some buildings that could be used and adapted to fit. It may just cost alot less.
  by scottychaos
 
The former PRR yard area along scottsville road would be ideal..
lots of vacant land, right next to the Airport, right next to the expressway, right next to UofR and Strong hospital (Rochester's largest employer) and right next to RIT..centrally located, minutes from anywhere, and easily hooks into the Westshore... they could even use the existing PRR spur north out of Genesee Junction, rebuild the wye, just go a mile or so north, cross Scottsville road on the old PRR ROW, and you are there..

only drawback to that idea is that trains would have to back into the station, using the wye at Genesee Junction..
the station wouldnt be directly ON the line, like most train stations are..
perhaps the delay would be considered too great..(but this IS amtrak we are talking about..would the delay *really* be that unreasonable? ;)

there is also a big block of empty land right on the Westshore, immediately north of RIT..
plenty of room there..

Scot
  by BR&P
 
I have long speculated that with the decline - actually vanishing - of almost every industry along the Water Level Route main, it might almost make sense to get some of these federal dollars they love tossing around and double track the West Shore, then abandon the present main line. The passenger operation as Scot says would be closer to RIT, they could rebuild more of Genesee Junction for freight, CSX would interchange with LA&L and R&S at the same location, and it would avoid the parts of the city which have more problems when a train has to stop there. The city could get rid of the elevated part, open up the High Falls view, and all sorts of "make it look pretty" things would become possible.

On the negative side, the Shore has numerous grade crossings, not to mention the "hump" going over the R&S. And the fine community of Pittsford would never stand for such a terrible thing as more trains going through their neighborhood. So it probably would not fly. But I bet CSX could save a ton of taxes if they did.
  by TB Diamond
 
About 35 years ago there was a report in one of the Rochester newspapers that a passenger station would be located on the West Shore at East Henrietta Road and that passenger trains would thereafter detour around downtown Rochester. May still have the clipping and, if so, will give a better report upon locating it.

Edit:

Found the clipping and I goofed as to the proposed location of the station. Here are some excerpts from the article mentioned above which was published in the Wednesday, 08 August 1973 issue of the Democrat & Chronicle:
RAIL STATION IN SUBURBIA?
A new Rochester rail passenger station may be built near Brighton-Henrietta Town Line Road and Jefferson Road, a spokesman for Amtrak said in Washington yesterday... Both Amtrak and the Rochester-Genesee Regional Transportation Authority are considering building stations in the area at the intersection of the Penn Central railroad's West Shore line and the authority's proposed Charlotte-to-Henrietta rail commuter line. Amtrak still needs permission of Penn Central to divert its four daily trains from the main line onto the West Shore line... Amtrak and the authority have discussed building a joint terminal but an authority spokesman yesterday said no formal agreement exists. "There's a good possibility that the two agencies might develop a joint site", said William Morris, authority project planner. Morris said the authority is still waiting for federal money to build the 12-mile $120 million rail line. The state approved the line in June...
  by PassRailSavesFuel
 
BR&P wrote:I've got a better idea. Who needs New York City anyway?
Take the "improved access" and "high speed rail" money and use it for political costs to wall off NYC and make it the 51st state. Then let's turn Up State or West New York State or whatever into an industry-friendly state and try to reverse the drain and decline. That's the only way you're going to have uplifting rail news in Rochester. And we all know what the chances of it happening are.
Well I agree, I really don't to go NYP(New York Penn Station)much anymore. NYG (Grand Central) I never set foot in anymore. I go to upstate, and take the train everywhere I can. I might rent a car when I'm in the American "Out Back" :) (Rochester or Utica going to Lackawanna Land) but I dump the rental and get back on the train if I'm traveling on. Gas, is not the only expense for the driver. If you get into a accident, you could be sorry you drove! And they do happen. You're also wearing out all those moving parts of car. You think their cheap? :(

And talk about"Out Back", I've been to Tennessee, It's not OK, the only LD train service is the "City of New Orleans" to two towns in the whole state. But maybe we should all move there and demand New York services. Then watch the taxes go up!(Let's tax the train tickets, like they used to) You know what mileage your car would get in the mountains of Tennessee? There's an other place for Tilt trains! The NC&STL mainline makes the NYC look arrow straight! What's happening to Rochester is happening to the whole country. You can see this from your "Magic" train window (NYCRR talk) not from 40,000 feet. Without NY City upstate NY would really be dead, so would Tennessee.
  by BR&P
 
I refuse to live my life in fear. Yes, it's possible to get in an accident while driving but to use that as a reason not to drive is not logical to me. Even when going to a place that is served by rail, I much prefer the freedom and flexibility of having my own vehicle. And so does the overwhelming majority of Americans today.

So Tennessee is only served by rail at 2 towns. No matter to me. And your statement "maybe we should all move to Tennessee and demand New York services" is the perfect illustration of my point. The reason things are cheaper there is people do NOT demand - and do NOT get - New York services there. If they start acting like New York, things would go downhill in a hurry. Last I knew, there was no big push to put in "high speed rail" from Chattanooga to Memphis!

Not sure how you figure Tennessee would be dead without NY City, I fail to see the connection. And in my opinion, separating NY City from the rest of NY is the last best chance we have to avoid going down the drain. Urban sprawl, subsidies, controls, handouts - to suggest that NY City pays its own way and still keeps upstate afloat seems absurd.

Without going off on a political tangent and risking the wrath of the forum police, let me say it's time we focused on what is needed for the bulk of the population. When we cater to a small minority, such as those who don't want to drive, are afraid to fly, and disdain taking a bus, at the expense of the majority, we get ourselves into an impossible situation. I love rail and have all my life, but we need to be realistic. Spending billions - with a B - for a very small percentage of people is irresponsible and dangerous. If you don't like driving flying or bussing, that's your right. Just don't demand that the rest of us pay for your foibles. (and I mean that "you" and "your" in the generic sense - I'm not attacking you as a person but if you fall into the category so be it).
  by nessman
 
I grew up on Long Island before coming up to the Rochester area for college, and 20 yrs later - the thought of having to drive through NYC out to LI is not a pleasant one. The traffic down there is horrendous, but public transportation isn't always the best option either (believe me - I used to work in public transit).

For me it's easier to fly Jet Blue to JFK and take a rental car to points east (so long as the Belt Parkway and the Southern State Parkway aren't nightmares).

Costs more, but I value my time and sanity most.
  by roadster
 
Well, here ya go, some uplifting RR freight traffic for Rochester from CSX's own website. Seems Due to Frontier Yards closure. American Rocksalt shipments to a vital customer in Pa. were being delayed by 2-4 extra days, because CSX trains picking up the salt from Rochester had to go either to Selkirk or Willard to classify the cars and send them back to the Customer in Pa.. With this business in jeporady of heading South, as in Norfolk Southern. (excuse the pun) CSX initiated a unit salt/mineral train from Rochester, NY to the Customer in Pa.. 4 have run already. American Rocksalt is shutting down for 3 weeks in August, and when production resumes, so will the Unit salt trains. How's that boyz?
  by BR&P
 
So the uplifting news is the railroad keeps the business it already had before it did something to endanger it.

There is apparently enough rock salt business to warrant a unit train. What about the traffic from other customers which may have been moving in lesser amounts before the cutbacks, but which does not rise to unit-train levels?

Kind of sad when "not losing as much traffic as you could have" is uplifting news.
  by sd80mac
 
roadster wrote:Well, here ya go, some uplifting RR freight traffic for Rochester from CSX's own website. Seems Due to Frontier Yards closure. American Rocksalt shipments to a vital customer in Pa. were being delayed by 2-4 extra days, because CSX trains picking up the salt from Rochester had to go either to Selkirk or Willard to classify the cars and send them back to the Customer in Pa.. With this business in jeporady of heading South, as in Norfolk Southern. (excuse the pun) CSX initiated a unit salt/mineral train from Rochester, NY to the Customer in Pa.. 4 have run already. American Rocksalt is shutting down for 3 weeks in August, and when production resumes, so will the Unit salt trains. How's that boyz?

If Salt mine is shut down, do they still load the salt? There's plenty of salt on ground that they can load up the train.

They have been loading the cars everyday with fresh new cars changing out every pm, I believe so since I cant see the cars behind other line of cars. They started around 645-7 am to load the cars. I drove by the place every day and usually see them loading the first car, 2nd car, or 3rd car, depend on their starting time and how late or early I am. After I drop son off at Livingston county highway dept, I head back north and see them loading the next car.
  by Otto Vondrak
 
roadster wrote: CSX initiated a unit salt/mineral train from Rochester, NY to the Customer in Pa.
Imagining what the Conrail symbol for this train would have been... the return trip could be URO, Unit Train - Rochester. What's the destination in Pennsylvania?
  by erie2521
 
Re: Combined bus-train station. There was a proposal for this in the 1950's but it was for the inter-city bus lines, Greyhound and Trailways and the New York Central. Since the bus lines each had their own building, it seemed like a good idea. However, the County was busy with a new airport and weren't interested in this project. Ted
  by roadster
 
Destination Monessen, Pa. just south of Pittsburg says the website. Well, I just considered that NOT loosing any more business regardless of the cause was somewhat uplifting. Better than argueing about reason for and against going to NYC. Seeing that the thread is about Rochester's present and future. Not what was proposed 40 or more years ago. All other current CSX rail customers appear to be maintaining a status quo as far as business shipments at present.
  by railwatcher
 
Greyhound, Trailways, and formerly Coach USA(Bluebird) along with RTS all shared the current bus terminal, with the AMtrak station blocks away in less than friendly neighborhoods. Parking is not a good situation for long term, so how do you take a bus or train if you cant park your car tp get on board? Obviously the current facilitiies were dreams of non travelers. I took a hypothetical look at a former car dealer building on W. Henrietta Rd. next to the Mall, the tracks that now meet the West Shore run by this empty building. It has high roofs and doors to handle buses, a loading area around three sides of the building and viable access to the building from the tracks at a short distance. With some dollars thrown at it, it would fly. That 20 million they wasted downtown would have done it easy.
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