Trains on CSX St. Lawrence Sub (CR's Montreal Secondary)

[joha107]

Change of trains status. B753/B756 have been annulled. Now the only road trains are Q620/Q621. These to now do the Watertown, and Massena drops and pickups. Extra B953/B956 are run occasionally as heavier traffic needs require.

Thanks for the info, it will be interesting to see how long this lasts, hope they plan on having adequate power for Q620/Q621. Have you heard anything on how much maintenance CSX intends on doing to this line, are they trying to get it back to where it only takes one crew to get from Syracuse to Massena?

[xcnoah]

So a local from Massena handles Norwood-bound traffic and Canton & Potsdam cars as well? I used to see them running to Canton with covered hoppers in the evenings, often returning north running light.

Seems like annulling B753/B756 will make some really long trains.

[tree68]

Change of trains status. B753/B756 have been annulled. Now the only road trains are Q620/Q621. These to now do the Watertown, and Massena drops and pickups. Extra B953/B956 are run occasionally as heavier traffic needs require.

Thanks for the info, it will be interesting to see how long this lasts, hope they plan on having adequate power for Q620/Q621. Have you heard anything on how much maintenance CSX intends on doing to this line, are they trying to get it back to where it only takes one crew to get from Syracuse to Massena?

Or are they still trying to sell it off?

[joha107]

So a local from Massena handles Norwood-bound traffic and Canton & Potsdam cars as well? I used to see them running to Canton with covered hoppers in the evenings, often returning north running light.

Seems like annulling B753/B756 will make some really long trains.

Yep, B785 or B787 handles the Norwood interchange as well as Canton and Potsdam, the covered hoppers were bound for the old Agway in Canton, I forget who owns it currently, Richter Feeds maybe?

[xcnoah]

OK. Is Potsdam Paper still a rail customer out on the branch? There is a propane dealer (Amerigas?) that receives a few cars in Canton too.

-NN

[RussNelson]

OK. Is Potsdam Paper still a rail customer out on the branch?

I believe so. I see different cars parked on the siding from time to time.

[Leo_Ames]

My father works at the papermill in Potsdam, and I occasionally drive him in or pick him up. I haven't seen any railcars for a while, and the rails are getting pretty rusty and the weeds don't appear to have been touched by a train all season where they cross the Sissonville road (I think thats the name) or the road that connects that one with the River Rd. I don't believe they're a active rail customer at this time.

I'm sure the railheads would be rusty either way unless it saw a lot of traffic, but I don't think the weeds would be so thick and tall if they were getting the occasional rail car in. Hopefully I'm wrong.

Hopefully the new owners are able to better utilize their rail access than Mead was doing.

[x1sspic]

The B787 usually picks up cars in Norwood and brings them down to what CSX still refers to as Canton Agway on the radio. It's actually owned by Poulin Grain now. This is usually an evening move, and the frequency seems to vary.

I haven't heard the B787, or any other local, ever go out to Potsdam Paper, and have always wondered if they are still an active customer? There is still the spur at the propane facility just north of Canton, though I've never seen it used.

Hopefully, with the potential for more use of the shortline that interchanges at Norwood, the line will see some increased 'local' traffic.

Scott

[lvrr325]

Watched a northbound go up that was very long, cut of coal hopppers, one covered hopper, more coal cars, one box car, cut of flats with Humvees on them for Fort Drum, cut of empties, then the rest looked like the mix of local traffic. Might have been another cut of hoppers. Looked like the engineer was going to have some fun on the grades with that one.

[x1sspic]

Watched a northbound go up that was very long, cut of coal hopppers, one covered hopper, more coal cars, one box car, cut of flats with Humvees on them for Fort Drum, cut of empties, then the rest looked like the mix of local traffic. Might have been another cut of hoppers. Looked like the engineer was going to have some fun on the grades with that one.

If this was yesterday, I think this is the train that came into Watertown as a W train. After they cut off the military equipment and coal hoppers for Fort Drum and were re-crewed, they headed north as the S621-17 with the remainder of the cars.

The Q620-17 had a late evening start south out of Massena last night, with a little over 100 cars.


Scott

[Bigt]

Sunday, Jan. 4

Going to go back in time....back in the mid 70's to early 80's, I used to ride the Canton local (also called the CTSE) and knew most all the crew.
Elmer Stark from Norwood was the regular engineer...Tommy Hurteau and Stanley "Corky" Farmer were the firemen (when one was avail.) The
head brakeman varied, but, the rear brakemen were usually Wayne Henderson from Norwood or Joe Lightfoot from Ogdensburg. The "boss" varied
also, but, Pete Ryan and Ernie Whitcomb from Ogdensburg were on most of the time I was around. Great bunch of guys who watched out for a young
man who was really interested in the job. Yes, the trainmaster in Massena would have had a stroke if he had known I was around / on his trains! But,
I knew my place, and, the rules, and everything was okay with the crew. Learned a lot from those guys. Sadly, most all of them are now passed on.

The local, in my "good ole days", was usually powered by an AlCO RS-32...2000hp. They were originally built for the NYC (1964 I believe) for their highspeed flexi-van service down on the mainline. Sometime in the early 70's they were sent north for local and yard service. Regulars on the Canton local were the
2030, 2033, 2034 and others as well. In their NYC days they all were numbered with a "8" replacing the the "2". These RS32's were regulars from at least
Watertown north for use as local and yard engines. One of the units I rode, 2033, under the firemans window, one could still see the old NYC cigarband
herald / decal! Seemed to be pretty good locomotives...never heard a gripe about them. And, being ALCOs, they sure could put up the exhaust smoke!
There was nothing better than listening to a idling, or working ALCO. A few times the local even came into town double-headed...that is how good business
was then from Massena to Canton.

The local always ran with one the N9E or N11 transfer cabooses. When I first started riding with them, the N9E (I forget the number of the assigned car)
was the usual model. Later, especially after Conrail came about, the N11 started showing up. They were nice cabooses, and, the crews were assigned to
them, so, they were usually well taken care of. I remember the "illegal" am/fm battery radio that was instatlled for listening to the World Series!

If I recall correctly, southbound from Massena, the first stop was Norwood for interchange with the Norwood and St. Lawrence Railroad (now, New York and
Ogdensburg). Then they had the Agway store, Elliott Hardwood lumberyard and Bisnet's scrap steel yard in Potsdam. Then, in Canton, there were two propane gas dealers (the names changed alot over the years)...one was switched southbound, the other northbound. Then they went to the busy Agway bulk plant where switching normally took the better part of an hour or more. Agway also had a fertilizer plant on the same siding, but, they did not receive many cars as I recall. Agway was normally good for 6 to 8 cars a day...sometimes less. Continuing southbound into Canton, they had the Agway Store, the Allied feed mill, and occassionally Robinson farm supply would receive a flatcar of machinery on the team track next to the Agway store siding. Then they would cross Buck street, go onto the bridge over the Grasse River and switch the Kraft plant. I would like to have a dollar for every PFE reefer we pulled out of there loaded with cheese! And, once in a great while we would have orders to take a car (reefer) further south toward Dekalb to the old Martins Beer Plant near Eddy. This reefer would be loaded with cased and keg beer. This was a facing point switch to us and we would do this drop by the old "flying switch". That was a sight to be seen! Going back northbound, leaving Canton, as I said before, there was another propane dealer to switch. These two dealers usually were good for a couple of cars a week. Then they would have the Potsdam Paper Mill siding (Nekoosa Edwards at that time) which was just north of Potsdam near Clarks Crossing (State Highway 56). I never rode down there with them, so, cannot comment on same. I don't believe they did anything in Norwood on the way back, but, it would make sense if they did in order to pick-up cars from the N&StL that came over during the day. Yes, these were long days....the crew was called for 7AM with a 7:30AM departure from Massena Monday thru Friday (excluding holidays). Most days the crew would make OT...sometimes never getting out of canton until mid afternoon or later (especially in the winter months) to start the northbound trip.

These were great times....learned alot....certainly miss them all now. Say what you may about the old Penn Central, but, their employees were not the problem...in this case they were the railroads best asset.

[RussNelson]

busy Agway bulk plant where switching normally took the better part of an hour or more. Agway also had a fertilizer plant on the same siding, but, they did not receive many cars as I recall.

Of all of the companies mentioned, these two are the only ones I can verify still take cars. In many cases (Potsdam Agway, Potsdam Hardwood, and Bisnetts) the switches have been removed, even if the sidings haven't been lifted.

[x1sspic]

wow, thanks for the information and nostalgia! I love to hear about railroad operations in the past.

Scott

Sunday, Jan. 4

Going to go back in time....back in the mid 70's to early 80's, I used to ride the Canton local (also called the CTSE) and knew most all the crew.
Elmer Stark from Norwood was the regular engineer...Tommy Hurteau and Stanley "Corky" Farmer were the firemen (when one was avail.) The
head brakeman varied, but, the rear brakemen were usually Wayne Henderson from Norwood or Joe Lightfoot from Ogdensburg. The "boss" varied
also, but, Pete Ryan and Ernie Whitcomb from Ogdensburg were on most of the time I was around. Great bunch of guys who watched out for a young
man who was really interested in the job. Yes, the trainmaster in Massena would have had a stroke if he had known I was around / on his trains! But,
I knew my place, and, the rules, and everything was okay with the crew. Learned a lot from those guys. Sadly, most all of them are now passed on.

The local, in my "good ole days", was usually powered by an AlCO RS-32...2000hp. They were originally built for the NYC (1964 I believe) for their highspeed flexi-van service down on the mainline. Sometime in the early 70's they were sent north for local and yard service. Regulars on the Canton local were the
2030, 2033, 2034 and others as well. In their NYC days they all were numbered with a "8" replacing the the "2". These RS32's were regulars from at least
Watertown north for use as local and yard engines. One of the units I rode, 2033, under the firemans window, one could still see the old NYC cigarband
herald / decal! Seemed to be pretty good locomotives...never heard a gripe about them. And, being ALCOs, they sure could put up the exhaust smoke!
There was nothing better than listening to a idling, or working ALCO. A few times the local even came into town double-headed...that is how good business
was then from Massena to Canton.

The local always ran with one the N9E or N11 transfer cabooses. When I first started riding with them, the N9E (I forget the number of the assigned car)
was the usual model. Later, especially after Conrail came about, the N11 started showing up. They were nice cabooses, and, the crews were assigned to
them, so, they were usually well taken care of. I remember the "illegal" am/fm battery radio that was instatlled for listening to the World Series!

If I recall correctly, southbound from Massena, the first stop was Norwood for interchange with the Norwood and St. Lawrence Railroad (now, New York and
Ogdensburg). Then they had the Agway store, Elliott Hardwood lumberyard and Bisnet's scrap steel yard in Potsdam. Then, in Canton, there were two propane gas dealers (the names changed alot over the years)...one was switched southbound, the other northbound. Then they went to the busy Agway bulk plant where switching normally took the better part of an hour or more. Agway also had a fertilizer plant on the same siding, but, they did not receive many cars as I recall. Agway was normally good for 6 to 8 cars a day...sometimes less. Continuing southbound into Canton, they had the Agway Store, the Allied feed mill, and occassionally Robinson farm supply would receive a flatcar of machinery on the team track next to the Agway store siding. Then they would cross Buck street, go onto the bridge over the Grasse River and switch the Kraft plant. I would like to have a dollar for every PFE reefer we pulled out of there loaded with cheese! And, once in a great while we would have orders to take a car (reefer) further south toward Dekalb to the old Martins Beer Plant near Eddy. This reefer would be loaded with cased and keg beer. This was a facing point switch to us and we would do this drop by the old "flying switch". That was a sight to be seen! Going back northbound, leaving Canton, as I said before, there was another propane dealer to switch. These two dealers usually were good for a couple of cars a week. Then they would have the Potsdam Paper Mill siding (Nekoosa Edwards at that time) which was just north of Potsdam near Clarks Crossing (State Highway 56). I never rode down there with them, so, cannot comment on same. I don't believe they did anything in Norwood on the way back, but, it would make sense if they did in order to pick-up cars from the N&StL that came over during the day. Yes, these were long days....the crew was called for 7AM with a 7:30AM departure from Massena Monday thru Friday (excluding holidays). Most days the crew would make OT...sometimes never getting out of canton until mid afternoon or later (especially in the winter months) to start the northbound trip.

These were great times....learned alot....certainly miss them all now. Say what you may about the old Penn Central, but, their employees were not the problem...in this case they were the railroads best asset.

[Leo_Ames]

I don't think either propane dealer in Canton gets rail shipments anymore, I don't even think Amerigas has been open for several years, it looks abandoned. Suburban Propane may get the occasional shipment, but I don't recall seeing a tank car for quite sometime.

[lvrr325]

If anyone's trackside up there Monday, watch for a center-flow covered hopper in Chessie yellow so dirty it looks black, with the lower half of the side which would face east, repainted apparently to cover graffiti in CSX light tan. Would be a good photo subject. Car has a CSXT reporting mark, but the number is just about invisible, you'd think they could have repainted that too.