• Catskill Mountain Railroad (CMRR) Discussion - 2018

  • Pertaining to all railroading subjects, past and present, in New York State.
Pertaining to all railroading subjects, past and present, in New York State.

Moderator: Otto Vondrak

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  by sd80mac
 
BR&P wrote:
Alcoman wrote: The railroad could be looking at 200-300 cars a year and more if they successfully get CSX to reconnect the switch.
How many cars a year does it take to get CSX interested these days? 5 cars a week hardly warrants stopping a through freight to make the setoff and pickup to them.

I thought there is yard in Kingston? If there's yard for delivering to customers, then it wouldn't be an issue to add these 200-300. But I cant see how or where they can connect the line to CSX...
  by Jeff Smith
 
News article re: lumber shipments

http://www.midhudsonnews.com/News/2018/ ... Mar18.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
The railroad, in the Kingston area, has received a request from Williams Lumber and Home Centers to allow it to ship 75 to 110 carloads of lumber per year to feed its retail locations in Ulster, Greene and Dutchess counties.

Railroad company President Ernest Hunt sees no problem with allowing the company to use the line.

“This has been a project that was originally conceived by the county in the 1980s when they rebuilt the switch that attached to CSX and there was actually there was a freight operator on the railroad for about five years from 1987 to 1991,” he said. ”It is really a continuance of that project from the 1980s.”
  by Jeff Smith
 
If they go to freight operations, similar to what Naugatuck Freight does in CT (both tourist and freight), doesn't this take the decision out of the County Exec's hands and put it in the STB/FRA hands?
  by BR&P
 
For authority to operate, yes. But if the county - rightly or wrongly - has ripped up trackage, IMHO that's outside the scope of their power and it would be up to the courts. Disclaimer - I'm not a lawyer and don't play one on TV, either.
  by scoostraw
 
I am obviously missing something here. When the CMRR provided freight service 1987-1991, they had a lease on the tracks. It was my understanding that the CMRR no longer has rights to the trackage east of Kingston Plaza.
  by scoostraw
 
AFAIK there is no Williams Lumber location on the U&D line.

If Williams wants lumber shipments at Kingston, the argument is going to be made that cars can be handled by CSX on the old Wallkill Valley team track. Don't get me wrong I would love to see freight service on the U&D again, but I just don't see it happening.

Again, maybe I am missing something here..
Last edited by scoostraw on Wed Mar 21, 2018 3:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.
  by airman00
 
What about the lumber yard adjacent to the Kingston plaza? Is that what there talking about?
  by scoostraw
 
airman00 wrote:What about the lumber yard adjacent to the Kingston plaza? Is that what there talking about?
I believe that is Herzog's.

A google search shows Williams has locations in Tannersville, High Falls, Hudson, Rhinebeck, Hopewell Junction, Pleasant Valley but not in Kingston.

If you notice the article states "The railroad, in the Kingston area, has received a request from Williams Lumber and Home Centers to allow it to ship 75 to 110 carloads of lumber per year to feed its retail locations in Ulster, Greene and Dutchess counties."

I'm sorry but I just don't get it. (And I'm trying!)
  by Alcoman
 
The Catskill Mt Railroad has sent a letter of intent to the County to access the line all the way to CSX. They have also requested that CSX replace the switch for interchange and access to the Kingston Yard.
  by CPSmith
 
Good luck. Neither the county nor CSX has any incentive or obligation to proceed. As far as CSX is concerned, any local traffic (projected or otherwise) can be transloaded off their own property. Pipe dream.
  by BandA
 
The county and the city aren't interested in extra tax revenue? And jobs? And allowing local companies to compete with big box lumberyards? And county residents voted for them?
  by CPSmith
 
Look, it's simply a numbers game. If the track were already there, that's one thing, but it's gone and never to come back. Think 100 cars a year is a lot? No, it's not, in railroad revenue terms. Lumber is not a high freight rate commodity. After splitting the rate with CSX, and then CP or CN, you're lucky to get $200-300 a car. So that's $20-30K a year - that doesn't come close to even maintaining a grade crossing, much less anything else. And if 100 cars a year really came to fruition in Kingston, CSX could transload it and cut everyone else out.
  by BandA
 
CSX seems to want to turn over the labor-intensive work to captive short-lines, keeping only the major yards for themselves. So, I don't think they want to switch small customers when they can get CMRR to do it for them. And the lumber customer doesn't want to transload, they want to be online (apparently). CMRR is motivated to get the freight business. CSX will want to get paid to install a switch; Long ago someone mentioned that there is a newer type of switch that would be used here if CMRR was reconnected. It is great for low-volume, low-speed branch connections because it doesn't interfere with the mainline unless it is thrown and hence has negligible maintenance impact on the mainline and doesn't affect speed like a traditional switch does.
  by cjvrr
 
Is the Walkill Valley Team track the area adjacent to Greenkill Avenue that has two parallel tracks off the main? Looks like a nice spot for this possible operation.
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