• New Tonawanda to Buffalo Rail Trail

  • Pertaining to all railroading subjects, past and present, in New York State.
Pertaining to all railroading subjects, past and present, in New York State.

Moderator: Otto Vondrak

  by Fireman43
 
Never say never.
It is nice that Tonawanda appears to be pretty proactive in developing rails to trails, but looks like these things take time.

Good to see the Plans on the local Gov side are carried over from administration to the next.
Now if only Amherst would develop the trail on the peanut ROW from north forest??? to transit so then could connect to the Clarence trail.

Wasn’t there recent talk of Amherst???
  by SST
 
I couldn't agree with you more. The complete connection of the Peanut from Tonawanda to Akron JCT, would be amazing. There was a lot of talk about it years ago. I may not be entirely correct but there was at least 1 person in Amherst that protested to such an extent, Amherst dropped it. RAPIST, MUGGERS, THIEVES etc etc etc......This one person[group maybe] killed it. This area is where the wealthy people live. So unfortunate.

You want my campaign contribution? Then kill the trail. My opinion of course.
  by DGC-24711
 
SST wrote: End of path at Filmore Ave. The ROW on the other side of the street is under heavy brush and trees. The Peanut is just beyond the buildings in the background. They are installing new sidewalks all along Fillmore Ave all the way to the Canal.
https://postimg.cc/94TrCJKK" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Drove past this yesterday. The rails in the roadway are gone, being filled in for an asphalt lay over. I gave a mean look to the flag men.
  by SST
 
While headed up to Canalfest in Tonawanda/N Tonawanda, I stopped at the new section of the path. I was surprised that little progress has been made since I picked up the piece of scrap rail. The pavement has been put down but the final touches at each road crossing isn't finished. I'm wondering if they ran outta money.

This picture was taken about 20 yards or so on the North side of Ellicott Creek looking south in the little park with a floating kayak launch. I just missed an Amtrak train headed to Niagara Falls. I won't be headed up Ellicott Creek at this point. The green slime is getting pretty ugly and I just spend tons of money and 26 days out of the water for boat repairs. No chance in hell will I venture up here.

Image
  by SST
 
While riding my bike I came upon a newly installed plaque of a train wreck on the bridge.

Image

Image
  by videobruce
 
SST wrote: Sun Apr 28, 2019 3:57 pm Amherst dropped it. RAPIST, MUGGERS, THIEVES etc etc etc......This one person[group maybe] killed it. This area is where the wealthy people live. So unfortunate.
You want my campaign contribution? Then kill the trail. My opinion of course.
Are you for or against it?
  by SST
 
videobruce wrote: Sun Sep 08, 2019 2:00 pm
SST wrote: Sun Apr 28, 2019 3:57 pm Amherst dropped it. RAPIST, MUGGERS, THIEVES etc etc etc......This one person[group maybe] killed it. This area is where the wealthy people live. So unfortunate.
You want my campaign contribution? Then kill the trail. My opinion of course.
Are you for or against it?
Forgive my late arrival to your question. My comment of kill the campaign was meant to be a "simulation" of the group against the trail. I am very much for the trail.

While checking out the Town of Amherst web page for any updates I stumbled on this site that discusses the trail corridor. Its over a year old.
http://www.amherst.ny.us/content/projec ... eworder=00

But what's interesting is the alternate maps within the webpage. These people are trying to divert the trail off the ROW. As you look at each Alternate map, it narrows down where these jerks live. This is the same area that protested the path years ago that I refer to above.
http://www.amherst.ny.us/pdf/planning/1 ... es_map.pdf

SAD!
  by NYCRRson
 
As told to me by my Father, that wreck on the NYCRR bridge over Ellicot Creek was a result of a misunderstanding of radio instructions to one of the trains. 1962 was still early in the use of radios.

There were two trains, one was an engine and a few cars with a caboose. It was switching around the former Spaulding Fiber Plant (on Wheeler St, City of Tonawanda) about a half mile south from that bridge and about 2 miles from the yard in North Tonawanda.

This train received radio instructions to "Get in the Clear". The crew took that to mean "go back to the yard and get off the main track". So they headed North (coming into that photo from the left side).

The Dispatcher said (or meant to say depending on who you asked); "Stay in the Clear", meaning pull into the siding they were switching and close up the main track switch. The siding at that factory could hold half a dozen cars easy.

The dispatcher thought the switching crew was off the main, and sent the train with the empty hoppers south from the yard in N. Tonawanda.

There was no signal between the the two trains that would warn the coal train to stop. That was a double track section without bidirectional signalling, the switching crew was going against the normal traffic flow so there was no signal for them.

There are curves leading up to both sides of that bridge so neither crew saw the other train until it was too late.

An unfortunate misunderstanding, however (IMHO) the dispatcher should not have released the coal train without first confirming the switching crew was indeed "In the Clear" (off the main track someplace). At that time that track was "dark territory" and the Dispatcher could not see what tracks were occupied. The Dispatcher was responsible for knowing (or finding out with a radio call) that the main track was clear before releasing a train into it.

After that wreck the operating crews had to write down radio instructions regarding occupying main tracks and read them back much like a tower operator would do with a written train order received over the phone from a dispatcher.

There was another tragedy on that bridge back in the late 60's early 70's. There was a neighborhood on the east side of the creek and the kids went to school on the west side of the creek. The nearest road/pedestrian bridge that crosses the creek is about an 1/8 mile north of that bridge, adding a whole quarter mile to the trek to/from school. So kids being kids (Junior high school ~12-14 years old) that railroad bridge became a convenient "short cut" on the way to/from school. Unfortunately the day came when kids were on the bridge and two trains crossed it at the same time. It was a while ago, but I believe there where 2 or 3 fatalities with one kid jumping into the Creek but not surviving.

RIP folks, Kevin.
  by Fireman43
 
Sadly an interesting story.

in regards to the Amherst Peanut Line path there is a FB group. https://www.facebook.com/groups/amherst ... ref=direct .

although I don't " do FB'.,enough I can read to at least somewhat follow.
There was a conversation posted somewhere on this earlier ( had to laugh) about how one of the council person ( or running for office ) expressed a concern by a property owner adjoining the path that asked could the town build a fence next to his property with a gate to keep people out but allow him easy access to the path. Priceless
  by tonfire72
 
NYCRRson wrote: Mon Nov 11, 2019 6:46 pm As told to me by my Father, that wreck on the NYCRR bridge over Ellicot Creek was a result of a misunderstanding of radio instructions to one of the trains. 1962 was still early in the use of radios.

There were two trains, one was an engine and a few cars with a caboose. It was switching around the former Spaulding Fiber Plant (on Wheeler St, City of Tonawanda) about a half mile south from that bridge and about 2 miles from the yard in North Tonawanda.

This train received radio instructions to "Get in the Clear". The crew took that to mean "go back to the yard and get off the main track". So they headed North (coming into that photo from the left side).

The Dispatcher said (or meant to say depending on who you asked); "Stay in the Clear", meaning pull into the siding they were switching and close up the main track switch. The siding at that factory could hold half a dozen cars easy.

The dispatcher thought the switching crew was off the main, and sent the train with the empty hoppers south from the yard in N. Tonawanda.

There was no signal between the the two trains that would warn the coal train to stop. That was a double track section without bidirectional signalling, the switching crew was going against the normal traffic flow so there was no signal for them.

There are curves leading up to both sides of that bridge so neither crew saw the other train until it was too late.

An unfortunate misunderstanding, however (IMHO) the dispatcher should not have released the coal train without first confirming the switching crew was indeed "In the Clear" (off the main track someplace). At that time that track was "dark territory" and the Dispatcher could not see what tracks were occupied. The Dispatcher was responsible for knowing (or finding out with a radio call) that the main track was clear before releasing a train into it.

After that wreck the operating crews had to write down radio instructions regarding occupying main tracks and read them back much like a tower operator would do with a written train order received over the phone from a dispatcher.

There was another tragedy on that bridge back in the late 60's early 70's. There was a neighborhood on the east side of the creek and the kids went to school on the west side of the creek. The nearest road/pedestrian bridge that crosses the creek is about an 1/8 mile north of that bridge, adding a whole quarter mile to the trek to/from school. So kids being kids (Junior high school ~12-14 years old) that railroad bridge became a convenient "short cut" on the way to/from school. Unfortunately the day came when kids were on the bridge and two trains crossed it at the same time. It was a while ago, but I believe there where 2 or 3 fatalities with one kid jumping into the Creek but not surviving.

RIP folks, Kevin.

Hey NYCRRson, thanks much for the explanation on the wreck that occurred in 1962. I have lived in Tonawanda most of my life and have wondered for a long time what might've been the cause. Very interesting. I have an acquaintance who has cut out newspaper articles (with photos) of both the wreck and the other incident you mentioned.
  by NYCRRson
 
"Hey NYCRRson, thanks much for the explanation on the wreck that occurred in 1962."

You are welcome. I believe there is an ICC report because there where fatalities.

Do you have access to the newspaper clippings with the incident where the kids got hit on that bridge ? I went to the same school (Old Tonawanda Junior HS across from the library) at the same time. I''m thinking it was 1972 or 1973 ?

Cheers, Kevin
  by tonfire72
 
NYCRRson wrote: Thu Jan 09, 2020 5:47 pm "Hey NYCRRson, thanks much for the explanation on the wreck that occurred in 1962."

You are welcome. I believe there is an ICC report because there where fatalities.

Do you have access to the newspaper clippings with the incident where the kids got hit on that bridge ? I went to the same school (Old Tonawanda Junior HS across from the library) at the same time. I''m thinking it was 1972 or 1973 ?

Cheers, Kevin
Yes, a friend has those clippings in a series of large scrapbooks.