• Saratoga & North Creek (S&NC) Discussion

  • Pertaining to all railroading subjects, past and present, in New York State.
Pertaining to all railroading subjects, past and present, in New York State.

Moderator: Otto Vondrak

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  by Tony Goodwin
 
I read the history of the Tahawus extension with great interest. Thanks for posting it. However, I don't see how that explains any of Curt Austin's "venom" against the S&NC. When he started the idea of a rail trail to Tahawus, the line hadn't been used for nearly 20 years. Once S&NC decided to reopen the line, the rail trail proposal was pretty much shelved with no attempt to join the "green" groups that threatened to stop the reopening due to forest preserve issues.

Also remember that when he suggested Warren County consider a trail for the line to North Creek, IPH said they were losing $1 million a year and had made no move to negotiate a renewal of their lease. The trail idea was only IF the lease wasn't renewed and IF no other operator came along. Since IPH did renew and has continued to operate it's no longer an issue.

As a hiker who occasionally has to look down at the big tailings pile, I would be very happy if IPH could move it all to someplace where it would be useful. However, even though those tailings have already been quarried and crushed, I do still question how that material can be moved such a long distance with a transfer from train to barge and still be competitive with stone that is transported a much shorter distance. I'm not all that convinced that it is just CP that is holding up the deal.
  by griffs20soccer
 
Revisionist comments. Listen to the Public Works meetings. IPH bought the line right out from under Curt's nose. He said as much in a statement in the Post Star. You really need to check your timeline and facts Oh well that's all I have to say on that. Let's talk trains.
  by newpylong
 
Tony Goodwin wrote:I read the history of the Tahawus extension with great interest. Thanks for posting it. However, I don't see how that explains any of Curt Austin's "venom" against the S&NC. When he started the idea of a rail trail to Tahawus, the line hadn't been used for nearly 20 years. Once S&NC decided to reopen the line, the rail trail proposal was pretty much shelved with no attempt to join the "green" groups that threatened to stop the reopening due to forest preserve issues.

Also remember that when he suggested Warren County consider a trail for the line to North Creek, IPH said they were losing $1 million a year and had made no move to negotiate a renewal of their lease. The trail idea was only IF the lease wasn't renewed and IF no other operator came along. Since IPH did renew and has continued to operate it's no longer an issue.

As a hiker who occasionally has to look down at the big tailings pile, I would be very happy if IPH could move it all to someplace where it would be useful. However, even though those tailings have already been quarried and crushed, I do still question how that material can be moved such a long distance with a transfer from train to barge and still be competitive with stone that is transported a much shorter distance. I'm not all that convinced that it is just CP that is holding up the deal.
Because the majority of energy ie price required in a quarry operation is getting the actual aggregate out of the ground and/or crushing it. If it already exists the transportation costs can be much higher and still competitive to a shorter distance product.
  by rhallock
 
I have a question about the EMD E-8s or E-9s on the S&NC. I passed thru North Creek a few days ago and saw two painted for DL&W. Looking thru my old pictures, I saw one E8 or 9 painted for Arizona Eastern RR, and more recently, two painted for Iowa Pacific in an Illinois Central inspired scheme. Are these the same engines that have just been painted multiple times or are they all different engines? The current ones are occupying the main track at the north end of town. The track beyond is very rusty. Also present were two Alco switchers, #5 and the D&H 821 which was spotted on the turntable. One BL2 was also behind the engine house.
  by lvrr325
 
It's fairly well known and probably mentioned in the thread that the "DL&W" E8s are former PRR units previously owned by the CNY NRHS.
  by traingeek8223
 
The Arizona Eastern unit left the property, got repainted in IC colors and returned with a matching friend. Both are former Chicago North Western E8s and they are now on another Iowa Pacific Railroad. As lvrr325 stated the two Lackawanna painted E8s are former PRR units from the Central New York Chapter NRHS and have not operated on SNC as E units we determined to be unsuitable to the North Creek line. The ALCO S1 is the former ALCO plant switcher and is operational and the D&H painted S2, which is currently out of service, is ex Staten Island Rapid transit and before that US Army.
  by griffs20soccer
 
The new "Ski Train" was the big news at the Warren County Public Works meeting. Here are some other highlights from the meeting:

1. They will be hiring about 134 persons for the Polar Express trains.
2. The regular, brunch, and dinner trains are just about all sold out for the remainder of the fall. They plan on adding equipment, starting the weekend of the 2nd.
3. There are 20 loads of stone ready to go to Taunton for MassDOT. They are waiting to be given the go ahead to ship.
4. S&NC, Amtrak, and CP Rail are meeting about a connection with Rail Services Group. May need to bring NS in to the discussions. The meeting will happen in October, stay tuned for news from the meeting. I'm not sure what this is all about. Anyone have an idea?
5. They are still working on shipping stone from Tahawus. The county was told to be patient. Starting freight takes time, at least 10 years and they are only in year 5. They haven't lost their enthusiasm for the project. They just had a meeting with CP Rail where they enacted a regulation (couldn't make out the name) which CP would have to give them competitive rates. There are criteria that need to be met , less than 50 miles and must be a new commodity, the stone at Tahawus meet both.

There was good news from the meeting. This is 2 meetings in a row with positive news.

S&NC continues to think outside the box. Some of their ideas work, some don't, but like any business you must evolve or be left behind. Some on this forum look at ideas that don't work as failures instead of them trying to grow the business.
Don
  by Mandy Saxo
 
Great post Don. I agree that thinking outside the box is important for any business.
  by Safetee
 
I have heard some rumors that snc may have some excess equipment for sale. Curious what if anything it might be.
  by Safetee
 
from what i have rea IP must have some major cash flow issues. which coincides with talk about some equipment possibly being sold.
  by tree68
 
Dick H wrote:Several posts on other forums that IP has had major layoffs at most of its properties.
I'm hearing 75%, from folks who were affected.
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