• Saratoga & North Creek (S&NC) Discussion

  • Pertaining to all railroading subjects, past and present, in New York State.
Pertaining to all railroading subjects, past and present, in New York State.

Moderator: Otto Vondrak

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  by newpylong
 
marco wrote:No gates on the highway? No Flagmen? Did I miss something?
Why would they need either? The RR obviously feels rusty rail conditions aren't in effect... and the lights are working.
  by griffs20soccer
 
Attached are the June 1st, Warren County Public Works meeting. Justin reports at the beginning. A few highlights are:

1. Several pieces of MOW equipment have been purchased.
2. The tracks from Saratoga to Tahawus were inspected by the FRA and NYSDOT and were found to be in compliance with the class of track that was referenced.
3 3,000 tons of stone will move from Tahawus which will fulfill the MassDOT contract.
4. Upgrades for the Thurman and Hadley/Luzerne stations.
5. Concession caboose at Riparius will be repainted and lettered in a D&H inspired scheme and moved to Thurman for use there.

More details and goodies in the meeting minutes.

http://www.warrencountyny.gov/gov/comm/ ... MIqQnU.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Hope the link works.

Don
  by griffs20soccer
 
Here are the highlights of the June 29th Public Works meeting where Justin updates the county on what the railroad is doing.

1. The concession caboose was moved to Thurman. It will be painted and hopefully opened this weekend for the North End Local.
2. At the Hadley station trees were planted, fence put up, and furniture placed in the station.
3. A second dome car will be placed on the Saratoga train. The North End Local will have two coaches. There will be two additional coaches available for either train if additional seating is needed.
4. The BIG NEWS. They have purchased two "new" locomotives. These are ex-Amtrak F40PHs. Both have HEP which Justin said was an improvement over the current power. They expect delivery in the next week or two and have targeted the end of July for putting them in service.
5. Last Thursday ten loads, 1,000tons, of stone was shipped from Tahawus to Saratoga for interchange with CP. There are 10 cars being loaded at the mine with shipment schedule for later this week.

I've hopefully included a link to the video.

http://www.warrencountyny.gov/gov/comm/ ... blic_works" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Fingers crossed.
Don
  by Otto Vondrak
 
griffs20soccer wrote:Last Thursday ten loads, 1,000tons, of stone was shipped from Tahawus to Saratoga for interchange with CP. There are 10 cars being loaded at the mine with shipment schedule for later this week.
Oh, CP is now accepting interchange from SNC? That's new. Weren't they forced to transload to truck at Corinth previously?

-otto-
  by griffs20soccer
 
Otto,
To the best of my knowledge by following the updates Justin gives at the county meetings each month, surprisingly all the stone for the MassDOT contract has gone by rail. There was never any mention of unloading at Corinth. So far all of Justin's reports were loads to Saratoga for interchange. Justin has been meeting several times the last couple of months with CP on their rates trying to get the rates they need to jump start their freight business. In the MBTA forum it was reported that the F40s S&NC purchased were in Selkirk this week. The units were AMT numbers 319 and 411. I haven't seen any confirmation on this.
  by SlackControl
 
I haven't had much of a chance to explore the railroad, railfan or otherwise. Are the intermediate stations used much? The one time I did chase a train, a few years ago, I caught them going past the Corinth siding, then made a wrong turn, and missed most of the branch, but ended up catching them again at Riverside, at which they just slowed down, and continued north without a full stop. Do people get on and off along the way often?
  by NaugyRR
 
I'll be taking the Adirondack from Rhinecliff to Saratoga to visit my uncle and father in Corinth at the end of August (Sure it takes the same time to drive, but for $70 it's MUCH nicer and easier than driving, and the ride is very scenic).

My Dad and I are interested in taking the excursion to North Creek and back from Saratoga, and I have a few questions to the folks who are familiar with the ops. Firstly, is the $45 per head worth it for the Dome Car? Do you need to order tickets online or can you pay at the station? Also, I see there's a three hour layover in North Creek; is there anything to do within walking distance from the station?

Thanks!
Jesse :-)
  by griffs20soccer
 
I watched the Warren County Standing Committee Meeting last night. Mr. Ellis was there to give S&NC's report. Very good news. Mr. Ellis spoke and answered questions for about an hour. Here are the highlights.

1. There is a new revenue stream for S&NC, storing empty DOT-111 tank cars.
2. Some cars will be cleaned others will be empty but contain a residue so they will have a placard.
3. Their contract with the county and city allows this since the cars will be stored on tracks they own, the Tahawus branch. They still wanted to let them know and be up front about it and answer any questions and listen to any concerns.
4. They plan on storing 300-500 cars on the branch sidings and at the mine. There are no plans currently to use main. If the main were used it wouldn't interfere with the hauling of any potential stone shipments.
5. The revenue from this is potentially 7 figures.
6. The cars will be emptied of any liquid in them before they are stored and should remain in storage for about a year.
7. The F40's are on the property. It wasn't specifically stated if they would be used for passenger or freight just that with the rest of the locomotives they had enough power on the property to cover all the current and future operations.
8. The were loading a car at Barton's for shipment.
9. They are still negotiating with CP for competitive rates for the stone.

The storage business will secure the long term viability of the S&NC. The county voted giving their blessing to cars being transport on their tracks and the storage business. I've include a link to the video, Mr Ellis is in the very beginning and goes about 60 minutes.

http://www.warrencountyny.gov/gov/comm/ ... blic_works" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

To all who said S&NC would fail, well it looks like you're wrong. The people at S&NC are working hard to have a successful business and bring needed jobs to the north country. My hat is off to these fine people.
Don
  by BandA
 
How do you clean out all those tank cars & not create environmental issues? And where does this cleaning happen?
  by griffs20soccer
 
If you watched the video, that was explained. The cars will come to S&NC either cleaned or with residual in them. Cleaning is done by an approved contractor elsewhere by the tank car owner. There will be no cleaning of cars by S&NC, they are just storing them. Car cleaners are regulated and permitted at the federal and state levels to be sure they are cleaned environmental safe. Once again no cleaning by S&NC, just storing. They will check the cars for any residual liquid and remove it. S&NC wants to minimize any risk of liquid dripping on the ground. It was asked how much that could be, Mr. Ellis said it might be up to a couple of gallons, but most will be liquid free.

Mr. Ellis did a good job of answering questions and addressing concerns. The railroad didn't need to seek permission, their contract with the county and town gave them the right. They should be commended for being good neighbors and let everyone know what they were doing and how the operation would work. During Mr. Ellis's talk he pointed out that S&NC has invested in the neighborhood of 3 million dollars in upgrading the county and towns tracks. That's private money, NOT tax dollars. Please watch the video there were many other questions and concerns answered on it. Some of you may have the same ones.
Don
  by shadyjay
 
NaugyRR wrote:My Dad and I are interested in taking the excursion to North Creek and back from Saratoga, and I have a few questions to the folks who are familiar with the ops. Firstly, is the $45 per head worth it for the Dome Car? Do you need to order tickets online or can you pay at the station? Also, I see there's a three hour layover in North Creek; is there anything to do within walking distance from the station?

Thanks!
Jesse :-)
I took my dad on the ride last fall. I thought $45 was a pretty good deal for the dome car. The views are great. Seating is assigned, however, and you do share the "table" with 2 others. We didn't partake in any of the food service available. Good thing too, as passengers who ordered after departing Saratoga were served about 30 minutes out from North Creek. I purchased our tickets online, actually the night before the trip. I paid with a c/c online and picked the tickets up at the station in the AM. Our motive power going north was the BL-2, heading south it was the B23-7.

Once at North Creek, there was a complimentary shuttle which met the train and drove around town and to various attractions. We took the bus up to Gore Mtn and went on the gondola ride. We then caught the next bus back and poked around Main St in North Creek, grabbing a bite to eat at a deli (which was very good, BTW... forgot the name but their sandwiches are railroad-themed-name). We then walked around the rail yard, took some photos, and then it was time to head back.

Overall, a very nice operation and a nice day.
  by NaugyRR
 
shadyjay wrote:
NaugyRR wrote:My Dad and I are interested in taking the excursion to North Creek and back from Saratoga, and I have a few questions to the folks who are familiar with the ops. Firstly, is the $45 per head worth it for the Dome Car? Do you need to order tickets online or can you pay at the station? Also, I see there's a three hour layover in North Creek; is there anything to do within walking distance from the station?

Thanks!
Jesse :-)
I took my dad on the ride last fall. I thought $45 was a pretty good deal for the dome car. The views are great. Seating is assigned, however, and you do share the "table" with 2 others. We didn't partake in any of the food service available. Good thing too, as passengers who ordered after departing Saratoga were served about 30 minutes out from North Creek. I purchased our tickets online, actually the night before the trip. I paid with a c/c online and picked the tickets up at the station in the AM. Our motive power going north was the BL-2, heading south it was the B23-7.

Once at North Creek, there was a complimentary shuttle which met the train and drove around town and to various attractions. We took the bus up to Gore Mtn and went on the gondola ride. We then caught the next bus back and poked around Main St in North Creek, grabbing a bite to eat at a deli (which was very good, BTW... forgot the name but their sandwiches are railroad-themed-name). We then walked around the rail yard, took some photos, and then it was time to head back.

Overall, a very nice operation and a nice day.
Thanks shadyjay, I appreciate your input. I agree on the dome price; in retrospect it's not a terrible price, especially for what, 2-something hours per leg? I think he and I spent that on the open car in Essex this past summer. Wasn't bad, but I definitely suggest sunglasses to keep soot and dirt out of your eyes lol.

How was sharing a table? Were your guests friendly?

I gotta talk to my old man tonight and see if he's feeling it. I'm catching #69 north on Saturday the 22nd and #68 south on Monday the 24th, so that basically leaves Sunday if we were to round trip the S&NC. Maybe I'll talk my uncle and his better half into coming too, this way we get a whole table to ourselves. I think they mentioned doing a Lake George Cruise and a hike up Whiteface too, but that's a ton to cram into a weekend.

Several times I've visited my uncle I've seen S&NC equipment laid up at SAR. On many occasions there's been an old ALCo S-Series sitting north of the station. I've seen both the B-Boat and the BL2 at the station, and what looked like the old LIRR bilevels that used to sit in Torrington on the RMNE's track. Do they let passengers scope out the yard in North Creek or do you need to ask permission?

The old man and I are always looking for new places to hike, so it sounds like if we do go, Gore Mountain will be a definite!

Thanks again!
  by D.Carleton
 
The property is posted with discrete signage. Conduct yourself accordingly.
Image
  by shadyjay
 
Most of the equipment at North Creek you can see from public roads/driveways. Only thing I really couldn't see was the Es, bilevels, and the old ALCO stored on the siding just south of the station. Without trespassing, you can only see the very north end of the siding.
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