Buffalo & Pittsburgh Railroad (BPRR) Discussion

[charlie6017]

EDIT: did some digging - back in the day there were 3 cutoffs around Buffalo in that area all right next to one another. From the north to south, they were the Lehigh and Lake Erie (LV), PRR West Seneca Branch, and the NYC (Gardenville Br?). What's left appears to be the PRR east of the B&P, which is tied over to the NYC west of the B&P. You can see the jog on aerial photos. I was wrong about saying in my earlier post that what was left was mostly LV - it is mostly PRR.

You're right......I'm guessing the former LV bridge over Abbott Rd was more structurally sound than the PRR one, thus requiring the jog.

Charlie

[lvrr325]

Is it even possible the LV was the only one with a bridge there, and using that stretch of it allowed eliminating a grade crossing?

The bridge is green, which usually indicates state maintenance.

Okay, no, street view shows the road dips for far enough for two or three bridges. You can even see the stored spine cars on the branch in that picture.

[Matt Langworthy]

In the back of the June Railpace (under the B&P section), it says B&P is worried about the increasing problems at CP-Draw and that it might have to shut for repairs. As a result they are looking at a "Martin Rd. connection" between the Orchard Park sub of the B&P and a PRR Buffalo line near MP3 in Lackawanna. I looked at a map and am not sure what they are talking about, especially what they mean by the PRR line MP3 in Lacakawanna. Or do they mean when the B&P crosses over the cutoff line from Blasdell running North East - I'm not sure of its name, both the LV and NYC(?) had nearly parallel lines - I think now the actual tracks for the most part on are on the LV Row except near the west end. This crossing of the B&P and this line I can't name isn't right next to Martin Rd, however, and I think I've read the line I can't name might not be in service. Do they mean a connection would be built at the crossing ??
Help! JS

I read the same article. Is there any other verification that CP-Draw will be shut down? Losing the bridge would be a major problem for CSX, NS and the B&P, if it actully happens. I recall reading somewhere that the NKP bridge might be placed back in service, although that could be conjecture, too.

[thebigham]

^I don't there is any verification.

The B&P is thinking of other options in case more problems develop with CP Draw. They are thinking ahead...

There's been problems for years with it! You'd think CSX would do something about it.

CPDraw is double track.

The lift bridge north of it is single track. Imagine if all trains going in and out of Buffalo had to use one single track bridge? #mess

[lvrr325]

The NKP bridge? It currently has no tracks, but is wide enough for two.

There's a third, single track bridge, which CSX could route trains over fairly easily but it would be difficult for NS trains to try to use.

[Matt Langworthy]

Mr. Bigham was referring to CP-1, which indeed has a single track. It would be difficult for both NS and the B&P to use it.

[pumpers]

Mr. Bigham was referring to CP-1, which indeed has a single track. It would be difficult for both NS and the B&P to use it.

Yes, and looking at maps for track diagrams, coming from the southwest, it is nearly impossible to get from CP1 to the NS (ex Erie) Southern Tier line or to the NS/B&P line to Olean/Salamanca. It seems you have to loop all the way around the north side of Buffalo , then back down to just west of Frontier Yard then back southwest to Buffalo junction, and then to the Southern Tier or Olean line... Plus it is not obvious how NS or B&P coming from the southwest would get to CP 1in the first place....
JS

[Matt Langworthy]

Yes, and looking at maps for track diagrams, coming from the southwest, it is nearly impossible to get from CP1 to the NS (ex Erie) Southern Tier line or to the NS/B&P line to Olean/Salamanca. It seems you have to loop all the way around the north side of Buffalo , then back down to just west of Frontier Yard then back southwest to Buffalo junction, and then to the Southern Tier or Olean line... Plus it is not obvious how NS or B&P coming from the southwest would get to CP 1in the first place....
JS

NS has a connecting track to CSX about a mile or so west of Bayview Road. They could (in theory) take advantage of CP-1 to take the long, looping route to SK Yard and Buffalo Junction. BSOR appears to be out of luck for a connection to CP-1, so they would lose their CSX connection if CP Draw shuts down.

B&P seems to have a connection with CSX between Lake Avenue and Ridge Road, but that means B&P wouldn't be able to send their local to Frontier, as they do now.

Shutting down CP Draw will be a big mess.

[dj_paige]

For all we know, the Buffalo River bridge at CP-1 could be in worse shape than the CP-Draw bridge. Does anyone have info about the condition of that bridge?

[lvrr325]

There's a third, single track bridge, which CSX could route trains over fairly easily but it would be difficult for NS trains to try to use.

....

[thebigham]

The area at Bing Maps:

http://tinyurl.com/o2ohv88" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

#7 CP-1

#8 CP Draw

#9 New B&P connection

#10 New B&P connection south of their present day yard

[SST]

Its been several years since I boated underneath the CP bridges. Frankly, I don't see how CP Draw is still standing. At the time, there were a number of rivets popped and a couple of cross support bars snapped and just hanging. The NKP bridge actually looks in better shape than CP does.

I thought the B&P just used the ex-BR&P [out of Salamanca] than PRR line[Machias] into Buffalo. Admittedly, I don't know where it goes once it gets to Buffalo. It never occured to me that they even cross the River. Looking at Google Sat maps, it looks like it can either go left and over the bridge or right towards NS Bison.

So, where does the B&P go after passing Harlem Rd westbound?

[Matt Langworthy]

The B&P definitely sends a local freight over CP Draw- I've photographed it. On the other hand, I can't speak for the B&P road freight.

[charlie6017]

I'm guessing B&P might interchange some traffic with CSX at Frontier?

Charlie

[pumpers]

I'm still learning about the Buffalo area. Just south of CP Draw, where all the tracks are next to each other (a bit north of the Tifft St overpass) I think the current yards & tracks are (from east to west):
South Buffalo Railway
B&P RR (ex BRP)
NS (ex Nickel Plate or maybe ex PRR)
Buffalo Southern (ex Erie)
CSX (ex NYC) -- with CSX Seneca yard further south from the others...

Do I have it right?

LV (to Tifft yard) and PRR (Penn Yard? Ridge Yard?) used to be west of CSX, not sure if anything is still there or who it belongs to.

JS