• Saratoga & North Creek (S&NC) Discussion - 2014

  • Pertaining to all railroading subjects, past and present, in New York State.
Pertaining to all railroading subjects, past and present, in New York State.

Moderator: Otto Vondrak

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  by traingeek8223
 
Report from the day: 25 DME hoppers on Ordway siding, 15, being loaded at the mine at (no pics, asked politely, was told no). 821 running in the yard at North Creek. Went to Barton siding to retrieve ex. LI commuter coach that will be heading to Kingston.
  by ladder2
 
So what happened to the loaded hoppers? Are they on their way to some destination or still sitting at the loading site? Has SNC come to terms with CPR moving the freight to Albany? All went quiet on the news front again.
  by griffs20soccer
 
Over on the Saratoga & North Creek Yahoo Group there is a video posted of the 1st stone train roiling through North River heading south. It consisted of the BL-2, 5 hopper cars, and a caboose. The gentleman posting said it was the 1st train in 25 years from the mine.
Don
  by griffs20soccer
 
The pictures brings up the question of whether 821 in MU capable or are the two units working independently or is 821 towing the BL-2?
  by Tony Goodwin
 
While this movement of gravel may seem significant, it was only five cars and none of them appeared to be fully loaded - perhaps out of deference to the track conditions. Furthermore, the destination appears to be just another Iowa Pacific Holdings owned railroad, the Mass Coastal Railroad. Delivery to Taunton is one end of that railroad, while barge delivery to Falmouth is another point on that same railroad. Selling gravel to another IPH railroad may seem like progress for the Saratoga and North Creek, but it otherwise looks like a very expensive way to acquire ballast given that there is apparently a quarry in Taunton.
  by lvrr325
 
Tony Goodwin wrote:While this movement of gravel may seem significant, it was only five cars and none of them appeared to be fully loaded - perhaps out of deference to the track conditions. Furthermore, the destination appears to be just another Iowa Pacific Holdings owned railroad, the Mass Coastal Railroad. Delivery to Taunton is one end of that railroad, while barge delivery to Falmouth is another point on that same railroad. Selling gravel to another IPH railroad may seem like progress for the Saratoga and North Creek, but it otherwise looks like a very expensive way to acquire ballast given that there is apparently a quarry in Taunton.

There are so many things wrong with this I don't know if it's even worth the time to bother to try to educate this troll. It would take an hour, particularly if I wanted to back it up with links.
  by Tony Goodwin
 
So just what is wrong with one railroad shipping gravel to another railroad owned by the same company?
  by D.Carleton
 
griffs20soccer wrote:The pictures brings up the question of whether 821 in MU capable or are the two units working independently or is 821 towing the BL-2?
Neither the 821 nor the 5 are MU equipped.
  by Tony Goodwin
 
There's nothing wrong with one railroad shipping gravel to another, but if they're owned by the same company there's no profit to lee either company going. So, if there are so many things wrong with my post, maybe you can start by naming just one.
  by RussNelson
 
Tony Goodwin wrote:There's nothing wrong with one railroad shipping gravel to another, but if they're owned by the same company there's no profit to lee either company going. So, if there are so many things wrong with my post, maybe you can start by naming just one.
You, Tony. You are what's wrong with it. You've posted so many fantastical imaginative fact-free things here that your currency is worse than the Zimbabwean dollar. Note: I'm not trying to persuade anybody anything about shipping gravel by pointing out your unreliability. That would be ad-hominem argumentation. No, I'm trying to persuade people to not engage in substantive argumentation with you, because it's like wrestling with a pig: you get dirty, and the pig loves it.
  by lvrr325
 
Tony Goodwin wrote:There's nothing wrong with one railroad shipping gravel to another, but if they're owned by the same company there's no profit to lee either company going. So, if there are so many things wrong with my post, maybe you can start by naming just one.

Just how often did your mother drop you on your head as an infant? It's obvious you not only have no idea how shipping via rail works, but you apparently can't even conceive how it would work, and it's just not worth my time to try to explain it to you because it will go over your head anyways. I'd rather just laugh at you anyways, frankly.
  by Tony Goodwin
 
Thanks for all the personal attacks that did nothing to answer the issues I raised. Asking how many times my mother dropped me on my head doesn't exactly raise the level of this debate.

I was never against the Saratoga and North Creek being allowed to take title to the line to Tahawus. In fact, I said on several occasions that I hoped they were successful in reducing or even eliminating the piles of tailings that were a perennial eyesore when viewed from Santanoni and other nearby peaks. However, now it's time for a reality check.

After four years of promised tailings shipments, the only thing that comes down from Tahawus is five cars bound for another IPH owned railroad. Is this is really how the S&NC will become profitable? In the wide-ranging interview with Ed Ellis that was reported in Trains, Ed said that the S&NC passenger operations were only covering the above the rail costs. Freight service is what would make the operation profitable. There was one box car of garnets shipped two years ago. None since. Now we have five cars of tailings bound for another IPH rail line. Negotiations with the mythical Long Island contractor have been in ongoing for at least two years now with no positive report of any progress.

In the early days (1992) of the debate on the best use of the Adirondack Rail Corridor, I suggested that this line to North Creek and beyond could possibly make it as a tourist operation. In addition to what they've done, I suggested partnerships with the rafting companies in the spring. Rafts go down the river from North Creek to the Glen, "non-combatants" can ride the train and watch from numerous vantage points, and then the railroad hauls the rafts and rafters back to North Creek. The rapids on that run aren't quite the equal of the Hudson Gorge, but they are nothing to be sneezed at as I can attest from a less than successful canoe run from Riparius to the Glen.

So I'm not against this rail operation, I just think someone should be questioning whether it really is viable and should therefore be used as a model for other local rail operations.
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