• Adirondack Scenic Railroad (ADIX) Discussion - 2014

  • Pertaining to all railroading subjects, past and present, in New York State.
Pertaining to all railroading subjects, past and present, in New York State.

Moderator: Otto Vondrak

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  by Benjamin Maggi
 
Thanks for the information on the "Falvo" station.
  by ricebrianrice
 
My family and I rode the July 2nd, 10:30 Loomis Gang Robbery Train this week.
We had a great time, the people from the Utica Theater did a great job.
The train crew was very professional, and handled everything with class, hats off to all of them.
It was a trip we will never forget.
For my two boys it was their favorite thing that we did on vacation, even beat out Enchanted Forest.

Good luck Adirondack Scenic RR!!
  by traingeek8223
 
From the railroads Facebook page:
The New York State Department of Transportation (DOT) and Department of Environmental Conservation (DEC) announced July 9, 2014 the State’s decision to retain the railroad track on the Remsen – Lake Placid Travel Corridor between Remsen and Tupper Lake, while continuing to evaluate and determine the best use of the track between Tupper Lake and Lake Placid. The corridor is part of the 141 miles of track on which the Adirondack Railway Preservation Society (DBA: Adirondack Scenic Railroad) operates and is actively working to preserve.
more info at https://www.facebook.com/pages/Adironda ... 1568573053
  by SteelRail
 
traingeek8223 wrote:From the railroads Facebook page:
The New York State Department of Transportation (DOT) and Department of Environmental Conservation (DEC) announced July 9, 2014 the State’s decision to retain the railroad track on the Remsen – Lake Placid Travel Corridor between Remsen and Tupper Lake, while continuing to evaluate and determine the best use of the track between Tupper Lake and Lake Placid. The corridor is part of the 141 miles of track on which the Adirondack Railway Preservation Society (DBA: Adirondack Scenic Railroad) operates and is actively working to preserve.
more info at https://www.facebook.com/pages/Adironda ... 1568573053
North Country Public Radio led with this headline: Breaking: State proposes converting section of Adirondack train to trail

http://www.northcountrypublicradio.org/ ... n-to-trail" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
  by traingeek8223
 
The official NYSDOT press release paints a more neutral picture than the slightly biased NCPR article:
The State Departments of Environmental Conservation (DEC) and Transportation (DOT) today announced that they will reopen the 1996 Unit Management Plan/Environmental Impact Statement (1996 UMP/EIS) for the Remsen-Lake Placid Travel Corridor. The review will evaluate use of the Tupper Lake to Lake Placid segment for a recreational trail. It will also examine opportunities to maintain and realize the full economic potential of rail service on the remainder of the corridor. In addition, the state will review options to create and expand alternative snowmobile corridors to connect communities from Old Forge to Tupper Lake on existing state lands and conservation easements.

The UMP governs the use of the 119-mile Remsen to Lake Placid Travel Corridor. The determination to revisit the UMP was made following a thorough assessment of options and a review of the extensive public comments made during four public meetings held by DEC and DOT last year.

DEC and DOT will prepare the UMP and draft EIS, which will explore opportunities to increase recreational use of the rail corridor and ensure it promotes tourism and economic growth in the surrounding communities. As part of this process, the public will have an opportunity to review and comment on a draft scope that outlines significant issues and environmental impacts, and guides preparation of the UMP and draft EIS. In addition, the public will be able to review and comment on the draft UMP and draft EIS when they are deemed complete.

Revisiting the 1996 UMP/EIS will enable DEC and DOT to thoroughly review those aspects of the 1996 UMP/EIS that recommend enhanced recreational opportunities and community connections, and to examine alternatives for the best future use of the Corridor along the Tupper Lake to Lake Placid segment. DEC and DOT will work with the Adirondack Park Agency (APA) and public stakeholders, including local officials and residents, to assess alternatives that reflect current realities along the corridor and potential environmental and economic impacts.

“Our goal is to protect our natural resources, while also exploring ways to increase opportunities for people to enjoy outdoor recreation activities in the Adirondacks,” DEC Commissioner Martens said. “We recognize that the future of the Remsen to Lake Placid Travel Corridor is important to local residents, communities and the regional economy, and the UMP process is the appropriate way to determine the best use of the corridor. We greatly appreciate the input received and continue to encourage the public and stakeholders to be actively involved in the UMP process since their views and interests will be an important part of the decision-making process.”

“The Remsen-Lake Placid Travel Corridor is a tremendous transportation resource that traverses stunning landscapes across the northern Adirondacks,” DOT Commissioner Joan McDonald said. “In response to public interest, we are reopening the Unit Management Plan, providing new opportunities to engage local communities and support the regional economy as we plan for the corridor’s future.”

The UMP process will provide a transparent and public means of exploring a proposed amendment to the 1996 UMP/EIS that would maximize benefits from public use of the corridor and conform with the Adirondack Park State Land Master Plan. Any proposed amendment would consider and incorporate public comments.

The rail service envisioned by the 1996 UMP/EIS has never been fully realized. The recurring short term lease under which the Adirondack Scenic Railroad operates has hindered the capital investment necessary to improve the rail line in the most remote sections of the corridor. This review will evaluate options to provide the long-term assurance to the rail operator and its investors need to move forward with much needed improvements.

Snowmobilers have long used the travel corridor during peak season to transit between communities. That use is made unsafe during periods of lesser snow as track becomes exposed. As part of this review, DEC will evaluate ways to expand snowmobile routes between the communities along the Old Forge to Tupper Lake segment of the corridor on state lands and conservation easements. This will open new recreational and tourism opportunities for those communities but also provide a safer riding experience for the snowmobiling community.
The fight is far from over, but I call a partial win for the Thendara to Tupper Lake section as not only will the rails stay but they will be restored.
  by traingeek8223
 
And just a reminder of what is at stake, here again is my photos of the section between Tupper Lake and Lake Placid:

http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/archiv ... x?id=91524
  by driftinmark
 
wow, great pics Matt!

the line looks in very good shape, bridges are intact, signage is ample...rails look great!......just some ties need replacing....

this would be an economic boom to this area is it was re-vitalized!....

so going forward....longer leases....tie replacement program.....walla! happy train riders once again coming to this area!...

just have to find a way for the snowmobilers to be more comfortable riding in the winter..
  by Noel Weaver
 
driftinmark wrote:wow, great pics Matt!

the line looks in very good shape, bridges are intact, signage is ample...rails look great!......just some ties need replacing....

this would be an economic boom to this area is it was re-vitalized!....

so going forward....longer leases....tie replacement program.....walla! happy train riders once again coming to this area!...

just have to find a way for the snowmobilers to be more comfortable riding in the winter..
This line looks passable for the most part but it is not in "great" shape. First off the drainage has lots of problems, the washouts need to be corrected and the conditions that caused them need also to be corrected if possible, many ties are shot and probably a fair amount of rail is pretty much shot as well. Don't forget the line hasn't had really good maintenance in a long, long time. Having said that I still think this line merits full state support and maybe some additional outside support as well to get the entire route back to the point where passenger trains can return and run at a reasonable speed. Even with diesel power this line could rival the Grand Canyon or any other tourist railroad operation in North America. It has great potential. I hope something more positive happens the sooner the better. I rode it in 1980 while it was back in "temporary" operation and it was a great ride. I still have my slides of that ride too.
Noel Weaver
  by Cactus Jack
 
Generally the rail is not in bad shape, it is 105DY - jointed. Not a very high percentage was replaced during the rehab from Snow to Thendara and that has had a detector car over it a number of times looking internally. Not sure how many sticks were replaced on the latest rehab from Carter to Big Moose, but do not think very many. Commonly seen are bolt hole breaks and VHS's (vertical split head) mostly from transposed curve worn rail, a practive I understand that NYC RR stopped about 1957 in talking with older (now dearly departed) trackmen but there are still transposed sticks out there.

Noel -

What dates did you ride and on what trains, do you remember ?

I was a brakeman back then and still have my timebook.
  by traingeek8223
 
Cactus Jack is correct. For the most part the infrastructure is good. It is mostly just ties, ballast and surfacing etc. Most of the major drainage and washouts were repaired 15 years ago in preparation for start up of the Lake Placid operation. Same goes for the bridges. Some new issues have come up in recent years (Lake Colby causeway) but they are of the mostly minor nature. It is far from the decrepit, broken down rail line that ARTA has tried to make it out to be.
  by RussNelson
 
Cactus Jack wrote:NYC RR stopped about 1957 in talking with older (now dearly departed) trackmen but there are still transposed sticks out there.
Management talked to section gangs about how to manage track maintenance??? Surely you jest!
  by Cactus Jack
 
Russ,

No jest at all. VHS's were (are) a serious defect if long enough. Management looked at keeping down the cost of derailments and the cost of labor and material whenever possible. The NYC Engineering Dept (Dudley) designed a good rail section and it was used extensively all over the NYC. However, about 1957 it was noted the high incidence of Vertical Split heads when curve worn rail was transposed - at least for the 105# section. In order to mitigate that the engineering depratment apparently issued a directive?, recommendation? notice? to the MOW Dept's not to continue that as a standard practice. I got that direct from two retired roadmasters off the St. Lawrence division while standing on the track near Forestport looking at a 6" VHS. We also found a number of these near Nelson Lake and up on Big Moose hill. All the same characteristic, VHS in a transposed piece of curve worn rail. Since that time I have heard from former Division Engineer's the same thing. It was a practice they did not want to continue. not to say at times it did not happen when need be, but as a standard preactioce section crews were no longer to do it. I don't have any experience or knowledge if the same was true of other Dudley sections.

Management did not micro-manage the section gangs, but standard practices have been in effect on railroads for years.
  by Cactus Jack
 
Maybe I could have worded my first post a bit more clearly.

NYC stopped the practice in 1957. In my talking with the now dearly departed trackmen, that was what they told me.
  by ffmike9
 
[quote][/quoteNoel Weaver wrote "First off the drainage has lots of problems, the washouts need to be corrected and the conditions that caused them need also to be corrected if possible]

Not sure when you were on the line last, but the washouts have all been corrected and the track is intact to Lake Placid. In fact there was an equipment move to Lake Placid in the last couple of weeks.
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