• Adirondack Scenic Railroad (ADIX) Discussion - 2014

  • Pertaining to all railroading subjects, past and present, in New York State.
Pertaining to all railroading subjects, past and present, in New York State.

Moderator: Otto Vondrak

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  by Otto Vondrak
 
This thread is for the discussion of the operations, equipment, and history of the Adirondack Scenic Railroad, operators of the former New York Central Adirondack Division since 1992. Any relevant news stories posted from outside sources require a link to the original article plus a brief "fair-use" quote.

Official web site: http://www.adirondackrr.com/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/pages/Adironda ... 1568573053" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Happy New Year!

-otto-
New York State Railfan Forum Moderator
  by kaseytrainfan26
 
lets hope for another good season! anyone know if 6076 is coming back up to placid? I know it went south at the end of the 2013 season
..
  by Gunsnclapton
 
Kasey, asking that question here would be like going to a kindergarten graduation and asking the students what degrees they want to go for in college.
  by SteelRail
 
Tony Goodwin wrote:Just in case you hadn't seen this commentary on ARPS's 2012 tax filings, here is a link. Remember that all of the negative quotes are from ARPS's own accountant.
http://www.adirondackdailyenterprise.co ... ?nav=5041]
What exactly are you trying to prove here? Yes. We know you hate the railroad and are trying everything in your power to destroy it so that nobody can enjoy it. Yes, we get that you want to see the railroad fail so you can destroy a piece of history. Yes, we understand that instead of embracing the struggle of the railroad, and rallying the communities to help preserve it, you'd rather see it's demise and spit on it's grave.

I'd go on, and express my true feelings about people like you, but I'd rather not get banned from this site.
  by traingeek8223
 
What I don't get is why Tony continues to post here. None of us are buying it. I do know that he has chassed off several people from even trying to discuss the topic on this forum (including myself) which is just another example of typical ARTA bullying. Maybe they just get their kicks trying to piss us off. Personally I'm tired of it. Keep spouting your BS on your Facebook page, but NO ONE HERE CARES WHAT YOU HAVE TO SAY ANYMORE!!!
  by lvrr325
 
Tony is a board troll. He's a good deal better spoken than the average troll, but is a troll just the same, and I have no idea why anyone continues to feed him by attempting to engage him in debate.

His mind is made up and the only way you'd change it would be to perform a medical transplant of another actual brain into his head. It's not worth the bother; you can lead a fool to knowledge, but you cannot make him learn.
  by traingeek8223
 
I'm going follow up to my previous post, first with an apology to those that may have mistakenly looked at this thread and thought they might be reading some actual news regarding the Adirondack Scenic Railroad but instead had to read the postings of some jerks with personal axes to grind (I'm including myself in that category).

Secondly I'm going to say this: What are you trying to prove here Tony??? What does trying to disprove the solvency of the Adirondack Scenic Railroad/Adirondack Railway Preservation Society possibly have to do with building a trail. You say that ARTA only wants the tracks torn up from Thendara to Lake Placid, yet you try to convince the world that ARPS has failed and they (we) are taking money out of the taxpayers pockets. Never mind. Don't bother answering. Your are already showing your hand. As an occasional volunteer and 20 year member and supporter of ARPS I take total offence to the way your organization handles itself in your attempts to tear down and discredit something that hundreds of people have worked tirelessly for years to accomplish. I bet you're the type of person that walks past his neighbor's house as he is painting it and tells him the you would have done it differently or painted it a different color. Then you would go tell all your other neighbors how he is doing it wrong and try to get them to convince him to do it the "right way", instead of just being happy that your neighbor is trying to improve his property. You serve no purpose here other than to just piss us off. Take your slanted views back to the gutter where they belong. I discourage anybody to further attempt to engage in conversation with this guy.
  by RussNelson
 
Tony Goodwin wrote:Just in case you hadn't seen this commentary on ARPS's 2012 tax filings, here is a link. Remember that all of the negative quotes are from ARPS's own accountant.
http://www.adirondackdailyenterprise.co ... ?nav=5041]
This would be the same Tony Goodwin who was afraid to debate me in an open forum, isn't it?
  by tree68
 
One must remember that the trail these folks supposedly want will have an income line at pretty much zero, with lots of expenditures (construction, maintenance, law enforcement, etc) - all contributing to a net loss of near 100%. Hikers and mountain bikers, the purported users of the trail, are notoriously frugal - which means they won't be spending much (if any) money locally. And they'll be driving ultra-economical vehicles, so they won't even be buying gas.

Meanwhile we have the railroad, which may not be a gold mine, but which buys its supplies locally, and brings in visitors who do spend money - just ask the merchants.
  by Otto Vondrak
 
Tony Goodwin wrote:Just in case you hadn't seen this commentary on ARPS's 2012 tax filings, here is a link. Remember that all of the negative quotes are from ARPS's own accountant.
MODERATOR NOTE:

You can discuss topics related to the railroad's operation past and present, or you can engage a troll employed by the opposition. Your call.

-otto-
  by Tony Goodwin
 
So what AM I trying to prove by my latest post pointing out the opinion by ARPS's accountant? Mainly, ARPS's "mantra" all through this debate has been that they are profitable and they they are not "state supported". Maybe now even train supporters will realize that this isn't true.

To respond to the comments above, I will point out that neither I personally nor ARTA as an organization have ever questioned the dedication and hard work that ARPS supporters have put into trying to restore and operate the railroad. Several of our public presentations have started by giving ARPS an "A" for effort. Unfortunately, hard work does not always lead to success - just ask some of the athletes at the Winter Olympics in Sochi.

In ARTA's opinion, the 13-year-operation between Lake Placid and Saranac Lake has not helped the local economy in any significant way. The presence of the rails north of Thendara, however, has severely hurt the winter economies of Tupper Lake, Lake Clear, Saranac Lake, and to a lesser degree Lake Placid. To date, all of the elected boards of the respective towns and villages have agreed with the above analysis.

ARTA accepts that the railroad has helped the economy of Old Forge and that the two hour excursion from Utica to Thendara is a distance and destination similar to that offered by other profitable tourist railroads.

So maybe I have posted to perhaps encourage a rethinking on the part of the rail supporters that the future of the railroad would be better served by focusing on the rail operations that appear to be sustainable. The additional 90 miles of publicy-owned rail corridor would then be available for uses that genuinely helped the economy.

Giving up on a long-held dream is never easy. Sometimes, however, that is what either one or an organization must do - both to survive for the long term and to make way for an alternate and better use of a valuable public resource.

Honestly, I don't post here for the purpose of just stirring up controversy. As many of you posters know, I was more than willing to engage with you at the hearing in Tupper Lake. I would like to think of my posts as a continuation of that engagement that might, just might, lead to a better understanding of the realities of rail operations versus recreational use of the corridor.
  by lvrr325
 
It's like fertizing a cornfield.

No, actually it's like feeding the corn to the cow and getting the fertilizer as an end result.
Last edited by lvrr325 on Thu Feb 13, 2014 7:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.
  by traingeek8223
 
Honestly, I don't post here for the purpose of just stirring up controversy. As many of you posters know, I was more than willing to engage with you at the hearing in Tupper Lake. I would like to think of my posts as a continuation of that engagement that might, just might, lead to a better understanding of the realities of rail operations versus recreational use of the corridor.
You were willing to engage me at the Tupper Lake Meeting. What you weren't willing to do was acknowledge any solid point that myself or anyone else made to you that opposed your opinion. YOU believe that the rails need to come out and no one can convince you otherwise. YOUR local terrorist organization know as ARTA has done a good job of scaring and manipulating the locals into believing that the rails HAVE TO COME OUT in order for their businesses to improve. YOU claim that recreational trails are the wave of the future yet all you seem to be focused on is destroying a railroad instead of further maintaining existing trails or developing new ones in areas that don't require removing existing modes of transportation. YOU laugh when we say that people will use the train to travel to the area claiming that everyone would rather drive on the congested highways. You claim that you applaud the efforts that we have made to restore and operate a railroad yet you claim we have had all the time we deserve. Who are YOU to decide? YOU claim that spending tax payer money maintaining the railroad (which is NYS owned infrastructure) is totally wrong, yet you have no problem with it being spent on YOUR trail project. (double standard much)

Sorry Otto. Sometimes I have trouble stopping. Even when I know better. From now on I will just reply to him with the old schoolyard standard "so's your face". example:
The presence of the rails north of Thendara, however, has severely hurt the winter economies of Tupper Lake, Lake Clear, Saranac Lake, and to a lesser degree Lake Placid.
So's your face.
  by Old Muley
 
Tony Goodwin asserts that he doesn't post here to stir up controversy.

Mr. Goodwin, do you honestly believe that your posts can possibly change the mind of ANYONE on this forum?
You are delusional if you believe that you can. No one here wants the rails removed. PERIOD.

So, the reality is, that the only effect here of your posts is to continue to "stir the pot", generate no "good will", and piss people off.

Please go back into hibernation. It was a nice winter here until you poked your head out of your cave.

Thank you sir.
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