Catskill Mountain Railroad (CMRR) Discussion - 2013

[Otto Vondrak]

Jtgshu I know where you're coming from...

Otto, thanks for the update. I know you or the RR can't say much but I think to read this thread and see the news articles one might feel the RR has rolled over and played dead.

This is a frustrating and trying time for all of us. We'd love to share with you every back room discussion, every volley fired, every direct hit, blow-by-blow... Some of this stuff would make you laugh out loud, some of it would make you grit your teeth and start punching... Please understand the extreme stress we are under and that there is too much at stake to simply just "spill the beans."

You will be seeing an official statement from the railroad very soon.

-otto-

[Kuyahoora Valley]

Wondering if there has been any thought to preparing a business case for getting to the reservoir...increased ridership = increased revenues = potential ability to pay of a loan that could be used to fund quicker tie replacement...maybe get a loan to hire a company like Reigel's to come in and quickly get minimum tie replacement done to allow trains to operate to the reservoir. This would allow the volunteers to focus on equipment maintenance/restoration and improving the look of the line that the public sees.

Also, seems like a case could be made that delays in expansion were due in part to delays in getting the crossing installed at Mt Tremper. Now of course the bridge is a huge obstacle to expansion. So it makes sense to work towards the reservoir which would hopefully result in repeat riders and an added attraction for new riders, with greater fare costs.

Probably too much work, but an event like Thomas or getting Lehigh Valley Coal #126 to come to Kingston would draw huge crowds in favor of the RR...Would be easy to show how much revenue was generated for the City/County as a result of RR related activities.

[lvrr325]

Didn't the county buy the line in the first place to prevent it from being removed? I don't remember anyone pointing that out yet.

[chefwrg]

Having a featured article in July's Railpace magazine can't hurt anything.....how the County can be bent on destroying a railroad with that kind of continued exposure just mystifies me. The people of Ulster County really need to get on board with this and make some noise.....

[thebigham]

I know you or the RR can't say much but I think to read this thread and see the news articles one might feel the RR has rolled over and played dead.

Yes. The perception is that there is a lack of urgency. Now admittedly that is just a perception. But perceptions count.

When I read Ernie's posting about a crew going out to put in more ties, I didn't know whether to cheer, laugh, or cry. I hope that the sense of calmness emanating from the RR is due to them knowing something we don't.

Of course, CHEER!

[airman00]

Rather than have two separate discussions, I felt it important to add this post from Mr. Ernest Hunt, from another topic, to this current discussion:

"The CMRR and DURR have an excellent working relationship. Ulster County and the DURR don't.

The DURR recently offered to rehabilitate the track from Highmount to Big Indian in stages and run the Rip Van Winkle Flyer there. They have a great interest in running the train on the famous horseshoe curve, and make this the most important part of their run.

This offer was turned down by Ulster County who said they want a trail only there.

EH" (END QUOTE)

I think this begins to show the county's true intentions. They'd like to ultimately do away with the entire railroad. I thought it was just the eastern "kingston" end of the line the county wanted. Now I find out they want the western most end as well. What that does is completely isolates the railroad on both ends, completely "choking it off" if you will. After all the DURR here offered to help rebuild part of the western end at NO COST to the county? And the county still said no? I believe Mr. Hunts post here says alot about this whole situation.

[jmarino]

Rather than have two separate discussions, I felt it important to add this post from Mr. Ernest Hunt, from another topic, to this current discussion:

"The CMRR and DURR have an excellent working relationship. Ulster County and the DURR don't.

The DURR recently offered to rehabilitate the track from Highmount to Big Indian in stages and run the Rip Van Winkle Flyer there. They have a great interest in running the train on the famous horseshoe curve, and make this the most important part of their run.

This offer was turned down by Ulster County who said they want a trail only there.

EH" (END QUOTE)

I think this begins to show the county's true intentions. They'd like to ultimately do away with the entire railroad. I thought it was just the eastern "kingston" end of the line the county wanted. Now I find out they want the western most end as well. What that does is completely isolates the railroad on both ends, completely "choking it off" if you will. After all the DURR here offered to help rebuild part of the western end at NO COST to the county? And the county still said no? I believe Mr. Hunts post here says alot about this whole situation.

theres not much to add to that , the old up& down has very little shot unless everyone who gives a dam writes and speak their piece to save the line even if the CMRR rebuilds from kgn to Highmount Hein wants a trail unless all fight the trail folks who want at tax payer expense a trail which only the avid hiker and bicyclist [3.8 %]grade . will use their will be a path much like is their now unused and a great burden to the tax payer . MR. HEIN AND THE COUNTY LEGISLTER WE HAVE ENOUGH TRAILS IN ULSTER COUNTY EVERTHING IN THIS COUNTY IS HISTORIC SO SAVE THE OLD ULSTER AND DELAWARE RAILROAD IT BUILT THIS COUNTY AND THE CATSKILLS !

[RussNelson]

Now I find out they want the western most end as well.

Let us not forget what lies at the other end of the DURR: the Catskill Scenic Trail. You know they're wanting to have one long trail that goes all the way from Oneonta to the Kingston waterfront: No DURR, no CMRR, no TMNY.

[jmarino]

Now I find out they want the western most end as well.

Let us not forget what lies at the other end of the DURR: the Catskill Scenic Trail. You know they're wanting to have one long trail that goes all the way from Oneonta to the Kingston waterfront: No DURR, no CMRR, no TMNY.

Russ is correct the TMNY gave up the track from 1.0 to 2.4 to get 1 mile of scenic waste treatment plant the old millens scrap yard and oil fields , about 2/10 of good scenery of the river and light house , Hein will take the line from 2.8 to Delaware county leaving the d&u and for how long as Russ said ? Wheres the historic folks ? To bad the cmrr and the D&U couldn't bye the railroad

[Otto Vondrak]

Now I find out they want the western most end as well.

Let us not forget what lies at the other end of the DURR: the Catskill Scenic Trail. You know they're wanting to have one long trail that goes all the way from Oneonta to the Kingston waterfront: No DURR, no CMRR, no TMNY.

City of Kingston LOVES the TMNY, nothing will ever hurt it. After all, the city went to bat to sponsor a grant for them...

-otto-

[scoostraw]

The DURR recently offered to rehabilitate the track from Highmount to Big Indian in stages and run the Rip Van Winkle Flyer there. They have a great interest in running the train on the famous horseshoe curve, and make this the most important part of their run.

Think about it. The D&U offered to rebuild to Big Indian. There is (was?) FEMA money to rebuild Phoenicia to Boiceville. And the CMRR actively rebuilding west from Kingston. It's all right there on the table. And the county doesn't have to lift a finger. And they don't want any part of it.

They'd like to ultimately do away with the entire railroad.

No question about it. I don't understand it, but it seems abundantly clear.

[Otto Vondrak]

Official statement from Catskill Mountain Railroad Co.:

FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE
June 25, 2013

For the last nine months the Catskill Mountain Railroad and our volunteer have tried to take the "high road" in our recent dealings with city and county officials. The Catskill Mountain Railroad Corporation has tolerated many abuses by Ulster County Executive Michael Hein, whose controversial trail plan aims to destroy the historical Ulster & Delaware Railroad Corridor which we currently lease.

At the core of the issue is the County Executive’s inflexibility and unwillingness to discuss shared use of the corridor. Under his plan, the CMRR would have to walk away from a growing and profitable scenic train operation in Kingston that was built with a significant amount of costs, materials, and labor. We would then be trapped on a isolated six-mile portion of the line with no hope for future growth and expansion.

Instead, CMRR has drafted a feasibility study that would allow a multi-use trail to be built beside the tracks between Kingston and West Hurley. This would allow Executive Hein to realize his trail vision, while allowing the CMRR’s current pattern of rapid growth and expansion. Written by engineers and other staff with construction and railroad experience, our Rail-With-Trail plan has been deemed unfeasible mostly by a staff of unqualified individuals and pro-trail allies who possess no such knowledge base. In addition, county planners have been unwilling to discuss our plan or any other alternatives to their trail-only concept.

With three years remaining on a 25-year lease, Catskill Mountain Railroad has been subjected to intense harassment by county officials and the City of Kingston in order to intimidate us into leaving Kingston. With hopes of finding a win-win solution with the county, CMRR has shown great restraint in its reactions to this pattern of bullying. We had hoped that we could solve these issues through diplomacy, as ladies and gentlemen, but the County Executive is too aggressive and too inflexible to have any meaningful dialogue with.

Ulster County has wrongfully issued a 30-day “Notice to Cure” to the CMRR citing several “non-compliance” issues with our lease. Upon careful inspection, our attorney has found the notice to be defective in many ways. We were happy to provide documentation, nonetheless, showing that we are in full compliance with our obligations. On Friday, June 21, the Catskill Mountain Railroad responded to the notice and demonstrated that we have fully resolved all items presented. Nevertheless, Hein has stated that he will terminate our lease, no matter what our response was, forcing us to go to court to prevent this from occurring.

In his June 12 press release, Hein stated, “It is my great hope that today’s action will encourage Catskill Mountain Railroad officials to participate in meaningful discussions and put an end to their current pattern of avoidance,” A meeting was held on Monday, June 24, but it did not include any meaningful discussions. Hein was not willing to discuss any issues with CMRR President Ernest Hunt unless we agreed to have the railroad vacate Kingston. While Hein's carefully-crafted press releases and public statements express a willingness to move forward in a positive manner, his character is marked by every act which may define a tyrant.

Hein’s vindictive behavior pattern is very predictable. We expect that since we did not “rollover” and give up our company’s future, we will be bombarded with another round of frivolous legal or administrative bullying from either one of his department heads or one of his allies in Kingston's city government. We are prepared to meet all challenges.

We believe that as citizens and neighbors, we should not have to be subjected to such oppressive treatment. As a corporation, we have a right to grow our business and to increase our positive economic impact on the county and surrounding region. To that end, we will enthusiastically defend ourselves against this nonsense and any future acts of aggression.

Our official responses to Executive Hein's terms of unconditional surrender..."Nuts!"

We have not yet begun to fight!

Sincerely,

Harry G. Jameson III
Chairman
Catskill Mountain Railroad Co., Inc.

https://www.facebook.com/CatskillMountainRailroad" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

https://www.facebook.com/allaboardforashokan" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

http://catskillmtrailroad.com/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[Jtgshu]

Now we're cooking! Great letter, great response! Something for the "troops to rally behind!"

Might not be a bad idea to conveniently repost contact info for some of the legislators and elected officials to make it easier for folks to get letters/emails out.

edit: - here is the link from the CMRR website for the contact info http://catskillmtrailroad.com/support-us.php" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

edit x2: - some of the contact info on that page brings up forbidden/broken links, in particular Gov Cuomo and Sen Schumer

[Scott K]

Here's a contact address for the governor that works; http://www.governor.ny.gov/contact/Gove ... ctForm.php" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I didn't look for Schumer's yet, but it would probably work the same as I did for this one. Just take out the word "contact" from the address on CMRR's page. Then there should be a link on the page you get that works.

Scott K.

[Otto Vondrak]

edit x2: - some of the contact info on that page brings up forbidden/broken links, in particular Gov Cuomo and Sen Schumer

thanks for the corrections, I'll make edits as soon as possible

-otto-