Area Historical Societies

[kilroy]

This is a marketing research question for everyone but mostly the under 40's out there.

I know that many of the groups have an aging membership that is less and less active each year. Most of the groups have a handful of members that do everything and a majority of the group does nothing but come to the meetings to look at the slide show/movies that are shown after the business meeting.

So my question is: If you are not a member of one or more of the area historical societies why? What would it take for these groups to get you as a member?

Be truthful. If you think they're nothing but a bunch of smelly old men who want to talk about and look at pictures of steam locomotives and railroads that went out of business 15-20 years before you were born, say so. If you prefer on-line meetings to getting in a car and driving 20 minutes to sit in a room with others, let us know. Don't like the politics involved in the group or if you didn't know we existed, then tell us.

I know that all of the societies are trying to figure out how to engage the younger generation of railfans. I realize that as a percentage of the population, railfans as a class is getting smaller but that doesn't explain why there are so few under 40's in these groups. I know when I got involved 30+ years ago, there were a lot of guys in their 20's - 40's involved but that's not the case anymore. Why?

So let's hear it, however painful it might be.

PS: I've read the URHS thread so I know all the issues involved there but they're not the only game in town.

[Jtgshu]

Well this is a very interesting topic, and im quite surprised it hasn't come up sooner, and this should lead to an interesting discussion.

Im a financially contributing member of two different societies, but not an "active" member who goes to meetings or events for various reasons (hopefully that will change at some point and can make time, but not right now), I think a lot of it is perceptions of what actually goes on with the organizations and politics, etc, basically all those things mentioned in your post above.

Also, I think one of the issues with getting the younger generation involved is there is so much other ways to get information and discussion about a certain railroad or aspect/area of focus that the groups might represent. With facebook, the internet, railpictures.net, etc its just so easy to get info and have discussion on things without even leaving your house.

Going to a railfan spot and just having an impromtu meeting or just hang out would do wonders to get some more people involved. Having inclusive trips to non-members or excursions to various locations open to everyone like happen sometimes here with various trips and wanderings or rides would help get more younger people involved too. I have gone on various meetings and trips with other board members here and just gone and wandered and had talks and saw things and took pictures and had food somewhere. And each time they were a lot of fun.

The amount of groups and societies is a bit overwhelming as well, with so many different groups and societies someone might not really know what they want or want to commit to a certain group financially. Younger people didn't grow up with the CNJ, LVRR, EL, steam or GG1s or anything like that. They grew up with Amtrak, Conrail, NJT, Geeps SD40-2 and dash 8 and 9s. Honestly, they might not know about or care about the history of a certain line or location. They just want to see and talk about trains and be with people who want to do the same thing trains. And might not want to deal with older men who don't share their thoughts or opinions on things and the discussions about long gone engines on long gone lines in far away places. But rather maybe oil trains running on the Port Reading Secondary with Dash 9s. Something that probably wouldn't be discussed at a CNJ historical society meeting.

IMO, just because there is a historical society, doesn't mean that it has to always focus on the past. Discussing current operations of a former line might also be a good way to get new blood. Bound Brook is a HUGE railfan location. Bound Brook was an important location on the CNJ and LVRR and even the Reading. Seems like a great place to discuss former operations compared to current operations.....to tie things together and share the history of one line to the current operation of another.

[alewifebp]

This is an interesting question. Just a few days ago I went to an event held by the Passaic County Historical Society. It was rail related, as the speaker was showing pictures and discussing the significance of a long abandoned railroad that ran through Passaic. It was surprisingly a packed house, with 50+ people in attendance. I was one of two people that were under 40. I'm sure other societies have the same issue.

Firstly, as JT mentioned, it is a technological issue. When you have a wealth of information, and can view pictures, read, and interact, the need to travel to a location. Exclusive trips can help. When MN was still running some railfan trips, it had a very wide cross-section of people involved. The trips that the NY Transit Museum runs are also run a very wide age range. I know the practicalities of those trips are sometimes very small, so I'm not sure what the answer is there.

There is also too many organizations, in my opinion. I'm not even sure I know of half of them, and neither do I know exactly what they do. The political dealings of those groups tends to turn people off too. A lot of big egos in the railfan community.

[kilroy]

Thanks guys. I hear what you're saying about running trips but the insurance issues these days has been a big part of their absence. Some people do run trips so they're not insurmountable.

Would those who are more computer based in their railfanning consider "attending" a meeting through a GoToMeeting arrangement if provided?

I'd certainly like to hear more responses.

[CarterB]

In this modern day of communications...certainly a lot of 'under 50' train enthusiasts would be ripe for a 'go to meeting' format.
More potential interested people, that don't have a lot of time, and don't particularly want or need to travel to pursue their interests.
I think such would be a capital idea for recruiting and keeping younger fans. Also, I agree, more generalized...such as Tri State Railfans ..(NY, NJ, CT) instead of fallen flag specific. Or...special interests across themes....such as passenger trains, freight trains, railroad operations...etc. Then perhaps quarterly meetings...with a theme or 'show and tell' of interest to the entire group; and perhaps a yearly 'swap meet' at a rail related facility.

[ExCon90]

I'm an active member of NRHS, and we ask ourselves this all the time. I also would be greatly interested in knowing what it is that fails to attract new members. I'm sure there are plenty of people regularly perusing this and trainorders and other sites but are not members of any of the organizations. Why not? We need to hear from you!

[Jtgshu]

Thanks guys. I hear what you're saying about running trips but the insurance issues these days has been a big part of their absence. Some people do run trips so they're not insurmountable.

Would those who are more computer based in their railfanning consider "attending" a meeting through a GoToMeeting arrangement if provided?

I'd certainly like to hear more responses.

When I said excursions, I didn't necessarily mean train excursions, I should have used a different word. I mean just a bunch of people meeting up at a location, and hopping in a few cars and going to different locations to go and explore. Of course, trespassing is an issue sometimes, but every railfan trip does not have to involve trespassing. Kind of like a poker run that bikers do. Go to different locations and get a card or item and then collect them all and meet at a specific spot. Ive done something similar several times and its a lot of fun. And thats just with a bunch of friends.

The historical society could set the meeting place, at say Bound brook, free for everyone interested, have some coffee and donuts, and then have a route planned out to go to different interesting locations, and then hand out the maps. whoever wants to go just gets a copy of the map and follows in their car. It could end at say Boonton, with a hands on interaction with for example, the CNJ GP7 up there (or which ever piece of equipment might be owned by that historical society in Boonton Yard in this example).

Use the resources at your disposal and actually own. Let people know the mission and what you actually do own and the reason for it. Put a little competition in it and make your group look more attractive than another group. Create competition. Younger folks will come out, just have to make it worth their while and give them something interesting to do......other than seeing slides in a dark room.

[CarterB]

Jtgshu, you're on to something there about 'explorations' For example, a few of us from this and other forums have met to visit the old Edison Mines operations in Sussex Cty, NJ, and the old Ogden Mine RR ruins and ROW...quite an interesting and historic trip.

Couple that with swap meets and online meetings and you may have a formula for success. WOF's with slides ain't the answer.

[theShrubber]

For myself, I would have to say a lack of leisure time would be my number one reason, and it's been that way for the past 15 years when kids started coming along, and will be that way for the next several till the last is grown up and out. If leisure time were to start becoming available, there are other varied hobbies and interests and things I used to do and that I'd like to do again, which would compete for that available time. I am 49.

[GSC]

In my experience, it appears to be a simple change of the times. I am involved with a few groups, some not rail-related. I give frequent presentations on the Morro Castle ship disaster to various organizations, and from what I see, the younger crowd isn't all that interested, no matter what the subject the group is into.

Changing demographics. I saw that men my father's age weren't interested in joining the stuffy old lodges my grandfather belonged to. And then my generation came along and wasn't that interested in joining up with groups my father was with.

At my American Legion Post, the Vietnam-era guys are mostly running things now as the WW2 and Korean guys slow down and sadly, pass away. But veterans of Gulf Wars 1 and 2 don't seem interested in joining the Legion, VFW, Catholic War Vets, Jewish War Vets, etc.

Even the local fire and first aid organizations are having trouble recruiting younger people.

Most blame time restraints for the lack of interest. Too much to do and not enough time to do it, much less join up with any organization.

It isn't just the rail societies that are seeing this.

[CTL10D]

Sadly, what GSC is true. The young generation overall doesn`t seem to care about anything these days other than playing video games. I`m 25, and luckily have several friends my age who enjoy the history of railroading, and history in general. We also care about preserving it. I had the pleasure of stopping in the New Egypt historical society a few months ago. Their collection of photos and artifacts was impressive, especially those of the Union Transportation company. But while in there something dawned on me.... I showed up while they were having a meeting, and no one there appeared to be under the age of 60. When the time comes that they`re gone, who is there to pass this history on? Will anyone even care about that history by then?.....Its a problem I`m sure lots of tourist railroads will face over the next couple decades or so as well, especially steam operations. Who will be there to carry the torch? Ive volunteered at Pine Creek in Allaire for 12 years now, and theres a few of us young guys, good friends of mine, who care deeply about all the history and not letting it fade away. The big question,which I have no answer for yet, is how do we get younger people interested? Aside from tri-pod toting 12 year olds who dont want to be involved in the work required to keep a raiload/museum running, how do we reach out to the "next generation?" -Chris

[JSF01]

Well I was looking at Youtube videos of steam locomotives when I remembered a question I had many years ago, "What ever happened to that steam train that use to be next to Blackbeard's cave?". My search for information lead me to these forums and I stumbled across this thread. Since I match exactly the type of person that you want to hear from I figured I'd throw my two cents in.

So the answer to your first question, no, I am not a member of any historic society. I am not because it has always appeared to me that most historic societies are filled with a bunch of very knowledgeable old men. I do not feel that I would fit into such a group. For one not being very knowledgeable on the history of railroads leaves me feeling that I can not really contribute in any of the discussions. While I am sure most members of these historic societies love teaching younger people what they know, it still leaves me feeling like I am dead weight. Second the age difference means that our interests out side of railroads is probably vastly different. You join a group, part of the reason is to socialize with other people. If your socialization with every one else in the group is limited to a single topic of interest, you are going to loose interest in the group. (I'm not talking about stuff that has to be discussed within the whole group or in any sort of official capacity, just the sort of conversations that would happen between friends before or after a meeting)

Why are there so few people under the age of 40 in these groups? That one I think is very easy to answer, it's the railroads fault. As the railroads declined so to did the interest in anything railroad related. The vast majority of the people in these groups would have been born 1970 and before. Even though they were in a state of decline at the time they were still quite visible, and able to leave an impression on people as kids, that got them interested in railroads. By the time people born in the 1980's and later were old enough for railroads to leave an impression on them a lot of the rail lines had been abandoned. The only places you would really ever see be around Newark, Elizabeth, etc..., which probably is not going to give one the pest impression of railroads especially if you are not from those areas. This has lead to a negative feed back loop. Less younger people joining in turn leads to less younger people interested in joining. The rail roads are just not capturing the young peoples imagination like they use to.

Fortunately there are ways solve the problem of lack of young people joining historical societies. I have a few, just give me a day or two flesh out a few more and I will report back with them.

[kilroy]

Thanks JSF, I never considered the age gap to be something contributing to the reason younger railfans do not join the historical societies but you bring up a good point.

I am a bit surprised that Thomas the Tank Engine hasn't had a bigger effect. I would think some "closet" railfans or guys who had an interest in trains 20 years ago and are now fathers with a Thomas crazed todler would have the spark rekindled and would be interested in joining us. I guess it comes down to the time issue we all raise.

I look forward to your suggestions on atracting the younger genratoin to our groups.

[blockline4180]

Well I was looking at Youtube videos of steam locomotives when I remembered a question I had many years ago, "What ever happened to that steam train that use to be next to Blackbeard's cave?". My search for information lead me to these forums and I stumbled across this thread. Since I match exactly the type of person that you want to hear from I figured I'd throw my two cents in.

So the answer to your first question, no, I am not a member of any historic society. I am not because it has always appeared to me that most historic societies are filled with a bunch of very knowledgeable old men. I do not feel that I would fit into such a group. For one not being very knowledgeable on the history of railroads leaves me feeling that I can not really contribute in any of the discussions. While I am sure most members of these historic societies love teaching younger people what they know, it still leaves me feeling like I am dead weight. Second the age difference means that our interests out side of railroads is probably vastly different. You join a group, part of the reason is to socialize with other people. If your socialization with every one else in the group is limited to a single topic of interest, you are going to loose interest in the group. (I'm not talking about stuff that has to be discussed within the whole group or in any sort of official capacity, just the sort of conversations that would happen between friends before or after a meeting)

Why are there so few people under the age of 40 in these groups? That one I think is very easy to answer, it's the railroads fault. As the railroads declined so to did the interest in anything railroad related. The vast majority of the people in these groups would have been born 1970 and before. Even though they were in a state of decline at the time they were still quite visible, and able to leave an impression on people as kids, that got them interested in railroads. By the time people born in the 1980's and later were old enough for railroads to leave an impression on them a lot of the rail lines had been abandoned. The only places you would really ever see be around Newark, Elizabeth, etc..., which probably is not going to give one the pest impression of railroads especially if you are not from those areas. This has lead to a negative feed back loop. Less younger people joining in turn leads to less younger people interested in joining. The rail roads are just not capturing the young peoples imagination like they use to.

Fortunately there are ways solve the problem of lack of young people joining historical societies. I have a few, just give me a day or two flesh out a few more and I will report back with them.

Thanks for this explanation.... I feel the same way as you do in most cases....
I was once a member of Tri-State, and was even on the Board for about a year, but i was the youngest person by at least 25 years.... The bottom line is I felt really left out and had many disagreements within the group so I left.....
Do you know of any other preservation groups that have a lot more younger members of mostly men in their 20's and 30's???

Thanks!

[JSF01]

Thanks JSF, I never considered the age gap to be something contributing to the reason younger railfans do not join the historical societies but you bring up a good point.

I am a bit surprised that Thomas the Tank Engine hasn't had a bigger effect. I would think some "closet" railfans or guys who had an interest in trains 20 years ago and are now fathers with a Thomas crazed todler would have the spark rekindled and would be interested in joining us. I guess it comes down to the time issue we all raise.

I look forward to your suggestions on atracting the younger genratoin to our groups.

While Thomas the Tank Engine might be a spark it is not enough to become a burning fire of interest. It's like a single spark landing on a log, it's not going to light that log on fire.

Thanks for this explanation.... I feel the same way as you do in most cases....
I was once a member of Tri-State, and was even on the Board for about a year, but i was the youngest person by at least 25 years.... The bottom line is I felt really left out and had many disagreements within the group so I left.....
Do you know of any other preservation groups that have a lot more younger members of mostly men in their 20's and 30's???

Thanks!

Unfortunately I do not know any other preservation groups with a lot more younger people, and I am not sure if there are any.


Here are my recommendations. These recommendations are for all the different Historical Societies, and it is my personal opinion the more that follow these recommendations the better shape the community as a whole will be. The purpose of these recommendations is not limited to just increasing the number of young people today joining but also increasing the pool of people that would be interested in joining in the future.

1. The different historical societies need to work together more to put on bigger events.
This does a couple of things for you. First a bigger event is more likely to capture the public's attention so more people will show up, as well as increase the people's interest that do attend. Out of that larger you will find more people willing to join. Second it makes the event a lot more memorable, which will help make a much more positive impression on kids, which will help keep their interest in trains alive until they reach adult hood.

2. Be apart of more events
Set up booths or displays at more preexisting events. fairs, parades, large holiday celebrations, etc... Like I had said before I believe one of the problems you are facing is the fact that the railroads impact has become a lot less obvious. In order to get people to start thinking about railroads and railroad history, you need to become a lot more obvious. There are probably many people that enjoy trains and railroad related items but on a day to day basis never give them a second thought or the fact there are even rail historical societies, much less joining one. Those people are not looking at railroad forums, publications, and they are not going out looking for railroading events to see. Since they are not coming to you, you need to go to them. By increasing your visibility to the public, you increase the odds someone that has the interest but never thought about joining. Just figure out a way to relate the event and railroads. For example there is a large car show, create a display around a Hi-rail vehicle. While at the event pass out information about future events.

3. Hands on activities
Hands on activities allows kids to feel more of a connection with history. This will help fuel kids interest in railroads so when they get older they will still be interested in railroads, and be far more likely to join historical societies. The same is true even for young adults, people will find things that they can participate in far more engaging and interesting than simply looking at some old pictures, or some railroad artifacts. Just tailor activities to different age groups.

4. A Historical Society for people in their 20's and 30's
People tend to prefer to be in groups with there peers. With existing Historical Societies there are very few young people so young people tend to be less comfortable in those groups, just like how most 40+ year old people would not feel very comfortable in a group of nothing but 20 year olds. In order to attract younger members you need a group of younger members, and since it does not sound like any existing Historical Societies have a large group of younger people you create one. Best way to do that is have the different Societies come together and the couple of younger members that they do have form one new group that while affiliated with all the Societies, is it's own independent group. Maybe they cycle around helping out the other Historical Societies, maybe they do their own thing. Being made up of younger people greatly increases the likely hood of another younger person joining. When some one joins they become primarily a member of that society but they can also choose to be a affiliated with one of the original groups. Eventually enough people join the original groups that the originals can start attracting young people on their own.

5. Engage the schools
Talk to different schools/teachers. Figure out away to tie in their lessons to the railroads. Support them with planning class trips, or create interesting presentations to show the classes. While this type of thing may have the least immediate impact attracting people in their 20's and 30's, it will help to increase the pool of people interested in railroads in the future, and be much more effective in the long run. It will just take 10-20 years for it to pay off.

6. High school shop classes and vo tech schools
Engaging with these two will have two benefits. For one since most students prefer to class trips to normal school, you can find a great source of labor and help for restoration projects, which I believe most historical societies could always use more of. Second some may find that they really enjoy doing the work and will want to come back on there own time to continue helping. Just find the shop class/ vo tech trade that is related to what you are currently working on. Need an old passenger car rewired, find the electrician vo tech or shop class. Need to repair an old wooding box car, find a wood shop/ carpenter class. Maybe you need a locomotive painted find an auto detailing or auto hobby shop class.

7. Competitions
Competitions are both exciting to watch and participate in. If you set up rail rod themed competitions you get people thinking of railroads in conjunction with an enjoyable time. The idea is to get people to start thinking of the railroads and the historical society more often to hopefully attract more new members. Even if you do not get any new members from such events, you can turn the events into a fund raiser by selling food and drinks. Some possible events would be a team boxcar pull, or carrying railroad ties from one location to another in the fastest time. Giving enough thought you might be able to come up with a way to have a competition that also can accomplish actual work that needs to be done. For example suppose the Pine Creek Railroad wanted to extend its line, hold a team competition to see what team can assemble a section of rail first. You could get free labor done, attract a crowed, part history lesson, and a fund raiser all in one.

8. BBQ's
Many groups have BBQ's, which you can use to help with your out reach for new members. Next time you have a BBQ pick a public part that is usually quite busy to have it in. Not only put up a banner identifying yourselves but also put up a display. With a display you will help attract curious people to you guys to look at the items you have and be able to talk to them. Maybe offer those that are especially interested in what you have to say some food. Your goal again is fanning the kids and adults interest in railroads, and you may even find a new person or two who ends up joining, all while bringing existing members closer together.

9. Expeditions/Excursion trips/Hikes
Organize trips to historic sites for the public, even better if they can be organized to allow access to places the public is normally not allowed. This makes it more special and hopefully gets some people that will want to do more tours and maybe eventually join. Excursion trips been covered a bit before, so I'll just add that for me personally it was train rides when I was little that really helped with creating my interest in trains. Hiking is another good one, I remember hiking along a section of The Blue Comet's line when I was 10 and I really enjoyed it. Such a activity can be done for cheep or even free which makes it perfect for young families that do not have much money to spend. All three are very valuable for fueling a continued interest in the railroads.

10. Mass Media
This one is probably one of the most tricky ones to pull off. Things like Facebook and YouTube are great for reaching out to the public and can be done for pretty much free. Most of us in our 20's and 30's use a lot of mass media, so it can be a great way to reach people of our age. The tricky part comes from the fact that if you do not know how to use it properly it is not going to help. As some general rules Facebook should be updated often, if not people will lose interest. When using YouTube you need to create well shot and well edited videos, otherwise people will not watch just like if a television or movie is poorly produced. On both you need to interact with your fans as much as possible, if they ask questions try to answer them. It makes it more personal to them and leaves them much more interested.

Like I said the more of these that you can do, I believe the better luck you will have in recruiting people both now and the future. So hopefully this will help you all out some.