• Berkshire Scenic Railway Museum (BSRM) Thread

  • Pertaining to all railroading subjects, past and present, in New England
Pertaining to all railroading subjects, past and present, in New England

Moderators: MEC407, NHN503

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  by DutchRailnut
 
Well you appear to be good at critisism, don't let effort of volunteers and donations of volunteers interfere with what you seem to believe to be right.
They restore the locomotive as built, it realy does not matter what color it will be, not many restored cars are original color.
putting a Birmingham =Southern liveried locomotive on Berkshire train makes no sense, and there are no NYNH&H ALCO rs-3 to be had, so they compromise.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Restored_train
Last edited by DutchRailnut on Fri Jul 01, 2011 7:57 am, edited 1 time in total.
  by Reader#108
 
Jack, the thing was in a roundhouse fire and was stripped to the boiler and has mostly all new parts.....that would be a restoration......

the only way the public is going to be educated about these things is to show them what they looked like.....the real Enola Gay was and still is

available at the National Air and Space Museum in DC....I've been there...the difference is that it was AVAILABLE.

so, does the Mayflower II in Plymouth dumb down the exhibit? or does it educate people on what it looked like and what the conditions were for the journey

or are you a USS Constitution guy? Which, by the way, has been completely torn down and changed out over the past 20 years.

I think that it is more about the educational opportunity than it is about paint schemes
  by shadyjay
 
DutchRailnut wrote:the unit is Berkshire scenics new power once restored, no mention of HRRC unit heading back to HRRC.
The #9935 (HRRC RS-3M) is no longer on BSRM property and it was noted in the Mass Bay RRE's trip brochure from the trip last month that it has been returned to HRRC.
  by xtcbct
 
Original New Haven equipment is often hard to find. As time goes on, originals of everything railroad related will only become more scarce. The locomotive is not being presented as an original New Haven RS-3 since it is one number past the last RS-3 ordered by the New Haven. I applaud the efforts of Berkshire Scenic Railway and must say that this locomotive will be a fine representation of what an NH RS-3 would have looked like. Someday, it may be most appropriate for original equipment to be stored for preservation purposes and have the reproductions be in operation. Only the future knows the answer to that. But with volunteer organizations, it is important to applaud these efforts. They are volunteering their time and sometimes even their own money to get a job done. The New Haven RR is gone, and perhaps Berkshire Scenic had no option to get an original New Haven RS-3. They are making the next best thing.
  by RonM
 
Depends on the lettering. Will it painted in NH colors with B E R K S H I R E lettering or N E W H A V E N? Are the top mounted lights staying?

Are the EMD switchers staying on the property?
  by RS-3
 
While my opinion doesn't matter to a hill of beans (I'm 1,000 miles away), I'd vote for painting it however you want (NH colors are fine) and lettering it "Berkshire" just like you other units. Whatever you decide to do I applaud your decision and congratulate you on this fine purchase. I can't want to come ride and photograph it.

RS
  by shadyjay
 
When the Danbury Railway Museum acquired their first locomotive, it was an RS-1 from the Green Mountain Railroad, that originally was built for the Illinois Terminal. They restored and repainted it to be "New Haven" #0673, numbered after the last NH RS-1.

And in the 1980s, the Railroad Museum of New England (then named the Connecticut Valley Railroad Museum) acquired an E9A from Amtrak that was originally built for the Union Pacific. It was subsequently repainted and renumbered to be "New York Central" #4096, numbered after the last NYC E8.

There are limited amounts of ALCOs, cab units, etc left, so kudos to the museums for saving them. While the "purists" would want to have the locomotive restored/repainted as when it came off the assembly line in 19XX, not too many folks would care really to see a Union Pacific or a Illinois Terminal engine on display or operating in the Northeast.

Kudos to the BSRM for preserving a historic locomotive, in addition to the same type that ran on its tracks some 50 years ago.
  by DutchRailnut
 
also remember "purists" do not usually get their hands dirty or their wallets open.
they just complain, complain complain....................................................
  by b&m 1566
 
It's one mans personal opinion but I'm sure Jack has got the message on where others stand.
  by CannaScrews
 
This topic has been gone over many times before. Check out RYPN.org & you will get a different view on the replication vs restoration vs original debate.

BTW, the RMNE 4K loco (4096) was done as an exercise in cosmetic restoration, to reproduce the New York Central colour scheme. That decision was made because the Union Pacific was deemed a little too distant to affect view visitors with something they could relate.
(Yeah right. The decision was made because the New Haven did not have an E-unit & NYC was next door - B&M need not apply (^|^). ) This was done during a major change of focus and activity for the then CVRM. In hindsight, the Museum came to the realisation that while result was spectacular, the reasoning was not that of a museum - a mistake had been made and will not be repeated. UP colours would have been just fine and painting it AMTRAK would have not been too shabby either.

I am quite familiar with the Berkshire group and I know their standards.

The Alco will be a great addition - a working condition RS3 is hard to find nowdays and is quite impressive to the general public just idling at the head of a train - almost as good as steam!

However, if I may add in my thoughts and they are just mine and hopefully will be taken into the mix for an ultimate decision, here they are:

Railfans do not pay the bills - all they want is pictures and give the dreaded 6 words "all you need to do is....." - they are not your audience. The general public is. (Railfans - not those who show up for work or donate in other ways (they have other appellations) - don't get your knickers in a knot...).

There is a great debate as to "using up your irreplaceable assets". Are you going to run that Sou PS4 or have it preserved permanently as a static display. Each has its points - the U.K. does a tremendous job of operating their steam locomotives (and a Deltic) as well as having York.

A replication is just fine if the fabric of the object is not destroyed in the process. New Haven 562? Sure, but you have to tell that story to the public AND it benefits the museum since there are 3 stories involved here; the original artifact, the (physical) replication story and the story why to replicate, i.e. the Berkshire Line of the New Haven. Without a prominent and thorough display of the replication process - you are lying to the public (and most railfans and NHRHTA members would mutter "ah, the New Haven never owned one" or to paraphrase Utah Phillips "My God, it's moose turd pie! - but it's tasty!".

Restoration - a fine story here as a B&S or a Cee-ment plant industrial loco. OK - maybe the paint jobs aren't as snappy, but the story is real and the history is there. Again, the public will appreciate the effort - and you can work in the Berkshire Line story into the narrative.

Restoration II - adopt a Berkshire Scenic paint scheme & apply it. If it evokes the New Haven scheme or Penn Central only a small fraction of the General Public will give a whit (Maude, Maude - this thing looks just like the olde Penn Central - wow! what a rush a flashback to the '60s...). But the GP should be informed as to what the rationale for your decision is.

What is come down to is this: This is YOUR museum and as such you have the responsibility to preserve the artifacts in your possession and present them to the public in a manner that fits the mission of the museum.
I assume that you have a mission statement and a accession/deaccession policy. If the RS3 fits the scope of collection then you have additional obligations as a museum, if not, it is cannon fodder (but may be in someone else's scope of collection).
Be prepared to defend your decision as best as you can, especially if it is controversial.

Look to other operating and non-operating railroad museums for guidance - see what and how they do and present themselves.

And finally, take everything said here with a mountain of salt.

Good luck, call me when it's up & running & I will bring a camera....
  by svobronco
 
Adding my .02$ for what it's worth and changing the subject slightly. Seeing the 954 needs paint why not paint it back into it's original Maine Central scheme? It is relevant and eye catching.
  by H.F.Malone
 
Good luck, call me when it's up & running & I will bring a camera....

HOLY CRAP, Canna.....YOU have a camera???? Well, knock me over with a feather!
  by CannaScrews
 
Of course!

Don't you remember the masthead photo of "Along the Ballyhooed Line" (AMTK 105 if I remember).

But wait, I've switched to digital. You don't have to have them processed (and censored) at Wal$Mart.
The only problem is finding 3 1/2" floppy disks for my Sony Mavica.

Image

Sorry for the poor quality - technology is just not the same anymore.

If there is a demand, I'll OCR & clean it up and republish it on the RMNE site PM or drop me a line....
  by Otto Vondrak
 
CannaScrews wrote:BTW, the RMNE 4K loco (4096) was done as an exercise in cosmetic restoration, to reproduce the New York Central colour scheme. That decision was made because the Union Pacific was deemed a little too distant to affect view visitors with something they could relate.
(Yeah right. The decision was made because the New Haven did not have an E-unit & NYC was next door - B&M need not apply (^|^). ) This was done during a major change of focus and activity for the then CVRM. In hindsight, the Museum came to the realisation that while result was spectacular, the reasoning was not that of a museum - a mistake had been made and will not be repeated. UP colours would have been just fine and painting it AMTRAK would have not been too shabby either.
Respectfully disagree. The New York Central paint certainly did more to serve visitors from the New York-New England region than would have a Union Pacific paint job.
Restoration - a fine story here as a B&S or a Cee-ment plant industrial loco. OK - maybe the paint jobs aren't as snappy, but the story is real and the history is there. Again, the public will appreciate the effort - and you can work in the Berkshire Line story into the narrative.
Again, I respectfully disagree. I don't think the folks down in Georgia appreciate the cosmetically restored New York, Ontario & Western 44-tonner down there. Or that New York Central RS-3 running weekend trips in Baldwin, Kansas. That stuff works great if you are just a general railroad museum with no focus and are just trying to cast a wide net. I'm not going to interpret the BSRM mission, I'm not an officer, so I'll leave that to them. But I think they are pretty aware of what's up and they should be applauded for maintaining the New Haven image on former New Haven rails in 2011... with full disclosure.
And finally, take everything said here with a mountain of salt.
Of course.

-otto-
  by Otto Vondrak
 
Okay, wait, I thought some more and I am upset about one thing. As museums, as preservationists, we have got to get off this rant that "railfans don't pay the bills." It may be that the railroad enthusiast audience is indeed a small portion of the receipts, but does that mean we have do ignore them altogether? Piss them off? Spit in their face? I've been on both sides of the rope that says "NO PUBLIC ACCESS." I'm quite aware that there are a large number of railfans that only grouse and complain. There are a quite many more who are also your biggest supporters. And they encourage their friends and families to visit and patronize your museums.

Why don't we focus on the very good things going on here? An Alco has been saved for preservation, it has been moved to friendly confines, and it will wear a coat of paint so that it is representative of a typical New Haven unit of the same class. You know what's funny about paint? It doesn't last forever.

Sheesh.

-otto-
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