Mount Washington Cog Railway

[b&m 1566]

I am not sure that the diesels will hurt their tourist business very much but as for myself, I was in the Albany area in August
and I was determined to ride a steam train. It ended up being a decision between Mount Washington and Cass, WV. Mount
Washington is a very dramatic trip up a mountain but with diesel power, I don't think it is worth the money for a railroad
enthusiast or somebody with kids who would like the steam experience.
I chose Cass and had a fantastic all day steam train ride up to Bald Knob. Steam was guranteed on every train and it was an
all day ride. We had a mountain although not as dramatic as Mount Washington the railroad is very historic and also very
much a challenge to operate with 9 per cent grades and two switchbacks among other things.
My prediction for Mount Washington is that in another couple of years it will be all diesel operated, the railfans will lose
interest and not ride it very much but it will still do OK with tourists and others. It still is a grand ride up a grand mountain
but in my opinion it is no longer worth going a long distance to ride and at a huge expense as well.
The cost to ride at Cass is a fraction of the cost to ride at Mount Washington and hotels in that area are a fraction of the
cost of hotels in the White Mountains too.
I loved my three days in West Virginia riding trains both steam and diesel and would do it again in a heartbeat.
Noel Weaver

I really, really, really hope your wrong but you have (as always) been right on the dime! Even though the Cog is no longer 100% steam, I hope they continue to run steam 10, 20 even 60 years from now, even if it's just one or two trips a day.
I also want to add that when I rode the Cog the Conductor never asked for a tip but only asked for a compliment/thank you! I hate to say it but this was back in 1995 so I can understand that things have changed, but the one time I rode the Cog I was never asked to tip!

[cogger]

Just a little tribute to a fallen friend!

http://www.facebook.com/album.php?aid=1 ... =501696643

Enjoy

[Mikejf]

First off, let me say I admire you guys that have had the opportunity to work the cog and the ones that still do. And for those that don't ask for this, it is not intended for you. Just giving my take on my trip a few years ago.
I don't tip at McDonalds or Dunkin Donuts or any of them. Unless they earn it. And they don't often. They greet you and get your order right. It's their job. But I hate to say that my only trip up the cog, I do remember the conductor trying to collect tips for the crew. I walked by and said thanks and left nothing. Just because the train made it up and down the mountain safely is no reason to ask for tips. It was their job. Now if the museum downstairs was to ask for donations to keep it functioning, I'd be all for it. But don't ask me to take money out of my pocket just to put it in yours.
Mike

[cogger]

I chose Cass and had a fantastic all day steam train ride up to Bald Knob. Steam was guranteed on every train and it was an
all day ride. We had a mountain although not as dramatic as Mount Washington the railroad is very historic and also very
much a challenge to operate with 9 per cent grades and two switchbacks among other things.
My prediction for Mount Washington is that in another couple of years it will be all diesel operated, the railfans will lose
interest and not ride it very much but it will still do OK with tourists and others. It still is a grand ride up a grand mountain
but in my opinion it is no longer worth going a long distance to ride and at a huge expense as well.
The cost to ride at Cass is a fraction of the cost to ride at Mount Washington and hotels in that area are a fraction of the
cost of hotels in the White Mountains too.
I loved my three days in West Virginia riding trains both steam and diesel and would do it again in a heartbeat.
Noel Weaver

Noel, I agree with you about Cass being an awesome place! I have been down there and it was a great experience. My Cog affiliation got me a cab ride I won't soon forget. Rode in and fired #5 with Arty at the throttle. Totally different from our Cog engines. Boy, do those Shays make great smoke. It was a very professional and well run operation. I am sure it is the same today. I know it's off topic from New England RR, but I had to respond to your post. Thanks.

[Noel Weaver]

I have not said anything about the practice of tipping on a tourist railroad. Personally I think the management of the Mount
Washington Cog should give their employees an increase to bring their pay up to a suitable level considering their line of
work. After they have done that, they should tell their conductors to keep their hats on their head.
I have never heard of tipping on a tourist railroad and it should not be done here either.
Noel Weaver

[3rdrail]

First off, let me say I admire you guys that have had the opportunity to work the cog and the ones that still do. And for those that don't ask for this, it is not intended for you. Just giving my take on my trip a few years ago.
I don't tip at McDonalds or Dunkin Donuts or any of them. Unless they earn it. And they don't often. They greet you and get your order right. It's their job. But I hate to say that my only trip up the cog, I do remember the conductor trying to collect tips for the crew. I walked by and said thanks and left nothing. Just because the train made it up and down the mountain safely is no reason to ask for tips. It was their job. Now if the museum downstairs was to ask for donations to keep it functioning, I'd be all for it. But don't ask me to take money out of my pocket just to put it in yours.
Mike

As you may have guessed by now, this practice annoys me on quite a few different levels. This is not a "request" as much as it is a "ploy". One of the definitions of "ploy" is "a devised or contrived move". (Merriam-Webster's Online Dictionary) I believe it to be a ploy as opposed to a request as there is psychological intimidation and manipulation used to collect. A jar taped to the car's wall with a "tips" sign would be a request. The manner in which I and others have described the way in which the conductor stands in close proximity to funneled exiting families with a clear demand following a "tipping anouncement", pressures families into submission. This is not by accident. This also most likely primarily works on families with children, due to the fact that the typical family leader quickly assesses the fact that this great experience at great cost should not be spoiled mostly for the kid's sake, and that a $5 bill is worth the price of avoiding a potential "scene". If you have occasion to ride the Cog, at the end of your ride, stand there and make note of who tips. I think that you will see that what I say is true. I will not be there, trust me.

Here's a review by "Barry I" 8/7/09 on Yelp.com:

"Unlike the other reviewers,I did not appreciate the cog railway.The cog railway charged us fifty-four dollars each and it was not worth it.The day we went to the summit of Mount Washington the visibility was very,very poor.The conductor of the cog railway was not helpful and very intimidating.The conductor pressured the passengers to tip him by complaining about his salary to the passengers.The management of the cog railway failed to respond to my complaint."

What do you cogger conductor guys make in salary, anyway ?

[Otto Vondrak]

I think we're taking an odd turn here with the discussion regarding salaries. Let's move on to something more productive, please?

-otto-

[yardlett]

Why did my other post get deleted? Are we not allowed to state our opinions on here any more? I do believe that I didn't violate any rules of this forum. What ever happened to freedom of speech?

[Tracer]

I think we're taking an odd turn here with the discussion regarding salaries. Let's move on to something more productive, please?

-otto-

I respectfully disagree Otto, were are discussing a subject directly related to the cog railway. Tipping is something most if not all riders have to experience on his/her trip up the mountain.

I highly doubt the conductors make more than 25 bucks an hour. For a job that only lasts only a few months thats peanuts. The cog is in a tough postion, as they cannot simply hire some kid for min. wage and expect them to safely bring 50 people up and down the mountain, yet they can't afford a big salary for a responsible adult conductor. I bet these guys hate asking for tips(i know i would hate to). Not sure what type of jobs these guy have in the off season but it can't be anything too lucritive if they are asking for tips. I took the ride a few years ago and i didnt think twice about giving the guy a couple of bucks. I believe them when they say they need every penny. I'd rather have a guy running the brake who has a few years under his under his belt asking for tips than some kid making min. wage not asking for tips. I think we need to cut the conductors some slack.

[cogger]

I think we're taking an odd turn here with the discussion regarding salaries. Let's move on to something more productive, please?

-otto-

I respectfully disagree Otto, were are discussing a subject directly related to the cog railway. Tipping is something most if not all riders have to experience on his/her trip up the mountain.

I highly doubt the conductors make more than 25 bucks an hour. For a job that only lasts only a few months thats peanuts. The cog is in a tough postion, as they cannot simply hire some kid for min. wage and expect them to safely bring 50 people up and down the mountain, yet they can't afford a big salary for a responsible adult conductor. I bet these guys hate asking for tips(i know i would hate to). Not sure what type of jobs these guy have in the off season but it can't be anything too lucritive if they are asking for tips. I took the ride a few years ago and i didnt think twice about giving the guy a couple of bucks. I believe them when they say they need every penny. I'd rather have a guy running the brake who has a few years under his under his belt asking for tips than some kid making min. wage not asking for tips. I think we need to cut the conductors some slack.

For 25.00 an hour, there would a line from Base back to RT. 302!

[3rdrail]

Why did my other post get deleted? Are we not allowed to state our opinions on here any more? I do believe that I didn't violate any rules of this forum. What ever happened to freedom of speech?

I read your post prior to it being deleted, yardlett, and although there was a tone of anger in it, I saw nothing out of line with the subject matter at hand, and if it's any consolation, I believe that the anger is justified.

I also believe that the subject of the salaries made at the Cog Railway are fair game as they directly relate to the documented unpleasant habit of begging for tips on the Cog. Honestly, whatever they are making, I believe that railroad men asking for tips is a distasteful activity and one that tarnishes the image of all railroaders to many who ride the Cog- many of whom have and may never ride a train again. For them, this is their railroading experience. But having said that, it does beg the question "how much do these guys make ?" as an obvious question by those who ponder on this practice. From my perspective, I would like to know the range of salary for MWCRy conductors so that I could then compare that range with other workers in that area to see if indeed, somebody performing a different service job but making the same salary up there solicits and receives tips from the public. I don't think that this is an unreasonable question to ask generally, nor unreasonable to ask on Railroad.net on a thread entitled "Mount Washington Cog Railway" in which a Cog worker previously claims receiving "insult" and "disrespect". Interestingly, following my asking the question regarding what salary Cog conductors make six posts ago, none of the "coggers" have replied with an answer.(???)

[pablo]

I don't think that anyone needs to justify why they aren't telling you what they make, and there is no freedom of speech here: it is a private website, and anyone or any post can be deleted at any time, and it doesn't need to be justified.

Furthermore, I'm not the mod here, but public whining about a post doesn't serve a purpose. PM the mod and ask there.

Dave Becker

[3rdrail]

I don't think that anyone needs to justify why they aren't telling you what they make
Dave Becker

They do when they're asking the general public for money to supplement what they make, Dave. We've had a poster on this thread who has acknowledged taking tips. Are we a forum of dealing with real issues as they arise or is this just a foamer gee wiz deal ?

[#501]

This is probably a little off topic but does anyone know if a model steam cog has ever been built? Ho scale or something? Just wondering

[jscola30]

LGB in G scale used to make a European steam cog locomotive, as well as an electric one that used real cog tracks (u had to insert them between the rails). I forget if Marklin is still making them or will be making them now that they own the LGB line.