WNYP independent of LAL?

[Otto Vondrak]

Arrrgh- I completely screwed up and deleted something I shouldn't have. The discussion thread was "WNY&P Independent of LAL?" and I was clicking too fast. I apologize to everyone, there is nothing sinister afoot. The topic is still valid for discussion. Sorry again.

-=otto-

[Smtimko]

Otto---

Can you look in the archives and repost it?

Seems very unlikely that a topic of such importance has been accidenly deleted. Is there more to the story..............?

SMT

[Alcoman]

Otto---

Can you look in the archives and repost it?

Seems very unlikely that a topic of such importance has been accidentally deleted. Is there more to the story..............?

SMT

I find it strange that the topic that I started was deleted without any explanation either.....

[pablo]

John, then repost it.

Dave Becker

[Otto Vondrak]

There are no archives, I messed up. I was trying to do one thing when I was distracted and did something else instead. I just told you the story and the explanation. So far I see more jawing about my collossal screw up than about the WNYP... either talk about the WNYP or email me off list of you want to chew me out.

-otto-

[Luther Brefo]

Move on to more productive discussion. Please.

Last thing I recall being said was that the WNY&P is held by both members of the current LA&L board as well as others. In publications it is often said that the LA&L is the parent company to the WNY&P which I believe to be true. Visit Cohocton and read the sign there for the B&H. THe B&H is a wholly owned subsidiary of the LA&L. The WNY&P is an affiliated company. Every company has its own books (financial) however and leadership roles are a bit more complex. The B&H and LA&L are essentially under the same watch while the WNYP has at times been under a different set of eyes. Every company has several titles assigned but a lot of them overlap for simplicity sake.

The WNYP is probably the most separate of the three due to the distance factor and the different set of people working over there. There are times when qualified members of say the B&H crew-list may be found working on the LA&L and vise versa.

[Steamtown Observer]

Actually from comments made here and in other public filings that I have been able to find there is a substantial outside interest in the WNY&P. The LAL owns significantly less than 100% but it is unclear what the number is. My curiosity came from the sudden appearance of Carl Belke replacing Bill Burt as president of the WNY&P. Then there were several posts that there was a WNY&P board meeting last week and that there may have been personnel changes as a result - the implication being that it had something to do with the president's position. Just curious as to if there was indeed a change last week and if it is public knowledge.

[pablo]

I've heard nothing public, although I did hear that the meeting is next month. Naturally, that brings up the question as to who said first that the meeting was next week. I know it could have been me, and it could have been here, but there was talk of it going around well before, and I know that didn't come from me.

Between this and the PILOT talk, it would seem that something is certainly afoot. Now, though, it also appears that we will have to wait and see.

Dave Becker

[Luther Brefo]

I would encourage you all to read this page to better understand the PILOT situation.

http://www.ccasstera.org/history.htm

Things change all the time. IIRC, Mr. Belke was brought in to bring the railroad into the black and turn it into an effective and well run railroad. This is not to say Bill Burt could not do it. I am only saying that Carl Belke was chosen for a reason. As I think we all understand, the picture isn't exactly pretty for the WNYP right now. "You have to spend money to make money." but at some point things change.

Bringing a railroad out of bowels of the industry is difficult. The people involved have done quite a bit to get to even this point. The next level is more difficult to attain however but they are trying. It takes time and lots of effort. Time is the limited resource in this case. I think...

I'm not speaking for the railroad but just as an observer.

[Smtimko]

Luther:

You state that time is the limited resource. I don't think so. The limited resource appears to be the lack of capital that WNYP has had to deal with from day one.

Couple the lack of capital with the lack of experience in any business and you have a prescription for disaster.

The WNYP like all railroads must have capable personnel in the field and in first level management. The disconnect usually begins above that level. Senior management on many of the nation's railroads fails to be seasoned personnel that have the rank and file knowledge of how to operate a railroad. Operating a railroad in theory does not work. How things should happen and how they actually happen are miles apart in the railroad business. Similar businesses have similar problems; manufacturing, banking, health care, service industry and other businesses. It takes qualified, hands-on type people along with operating capital.

Would you want a cash register repairman working on your vehicle? Would you want a concrete truck driver cooking your dinner at a fine restaurant? I think not, and those businesses screen and select the proper people for the positions. Likewise, the businesses are usually run by the appropriate, qualified people. In the case of the auto business; a qualified automobile sales or marketing expert. In the case of the fine restaurant; a well-known, trained qualified chef or food service industry leader.

Railroads should do the same. Because a person likes a certain piece of railroad does not mean he has the ability to run it. Railroads need qualified people in each of the important functions: executive, operating, financing, marketing and maintenance. Mr. Belke, who I personally do not know, must appear to the owners to be the right person for one or more of those positions.

If you have the proper people in place, the financial backing will fall into place, granted of course, if it is a viable business venture.

SMT

[Hardhitchoops]

Mr. Bill Burt is still president of the WNYP. A simple call to Lakeville will confirm this.

Hardhitchoops; a WNYP shareholder.

[roc]

OK, then. By the end of this week, we were told to expect a.) a board meeting and b.) a change in management.

What news of the world? We're all waiting on pins and needles.

[pablo]

Ron, it's great to see you posting things in a variety of places! Good for you!

As stated in a variety of places, whether there actually was a meeting this week, or if it's later, is up in the air. As stated elsewhere, when someone knows, they'll no doubt post!

Until then, you'll just have to wait on pins and needles!

Dave Becker

[Anchorman]

I gotta repeat Alcoman's question, where's his thread? Although I disagree with his opinion, I was curious to see what others had to say. From Pablo's initial post, Alcoman wasn't the only one to have heard this info.
I'm aware of the PILOT agreement, but am curious to know if they have a similar agreement as the CNYK does on the Tier east of Bingo where as they have to keep the track up to certain standards. I know they pay no taxes, but assume they pay NS a lease payment....I'd think the Farmers Valley business should cover this on its own.

[Otto Vondrak]

And I'll repeat, because of my colossal screw up, you'll have to re-post anything that was in that thread. The topic is not forbidden, so if you got something to post, post it.

-otto-