Engine size vs. Load ????

[railwatcher]

Okay, how many cars can one engine haul effectively by itself. Horsepower VS tonnage? Obviously we are talking about the average Alco 420, 424 or 430. Sometimes its ashort train with two engines or as I saw yesterday... a long train with one engine. Of course empty or full loads make tonnage difference, but what can one engine do????

Greg

[BR&P]

There are way too many variables to just come out and say "X tons". Are you going uphill or down? How much curvature? Are there flange lubricators near the sharp curves? Most cars today have roller bearings, but if you have older cars with friction bearings such as MW cars that can be a factor. Cold weather is not quite as much a problem as in the old days, back then with all friction bearings temperature was a major issue. But even rollers get stiff when it's cold. How about rain - wet rail can cause wheel slip, but it also can lessen the friction of the train itself around curves. So tonnage ratings are given for specific lines or sections of track, not in overall "anywhere" terms.

And there are things you can't explain. Sometimes you can take two identical locomotives right down to the paint, yet one will outpull the other.

[railwatcher]

Thanks BR&P. Your information helps my quandry. I guess my interest here is that I see for example on the B&H one engine hauling 20+ cars (of course empty or loaded I dont know) and two engines hauling on the LA&L, a consist of 5 or 9 cars sometimes. I know there is a fairly good grade coming out of Avon southbound and that must come into play, also. I was trying to rationalize this as to why the difference. Of course there isnt much if any grade on the B&H from Cohocton to Painted Post, It's just a trip down the valley. The traction and pulling effort make sence and of course come in to play. I didnt know if there was a "rule of thumb" for the amount of engines used.

Greg

[Mike Roque]

I guess my interest here is that I see for example on the B&H one engine hauling 20+ cars (of course empty or loaded I dont know) and two engines hauling on the LA&L, a consist of 5 or 9 cars sometimes. I know there is a fairly good grade coming out of Avon southbound and that must come into play, also. I was trying to rationalize this as to why the difference.

There are other reasons besides tonnage to have more than one engine. For example, the Matthews & Fields Lumber siding in East Henrietta faces south/east, so when they need to switch it, they bring two engines so they can split the power and successfully switch the industry while ending up with an engine leading the train instead of shoving cars all the way back.

[BR&P]

Switching can indeed be a factor - as Mike says if you have a place without a runaround, a second engine may be required to pull the train by. There was also something on one of these forums about some road where the crew didn't like running long hood forward so they always took 2 units even with only a few cars, so they could have low nose front both ways. I have also seen instances where a train has 2 units from A to B. At B they split the power, with one crew going to C while another crew goes to D, each with one of the units.

As for 1 unit rather than 2, sometimes a unit needs routine repairs or periodic inspection and is down for a few days. I can't speak for B&H in your specific example but that's one possible explanation.

[railwatcher]

Thanks Mike and BR&P for your insights. It is a bit more clear, now.

In times with $3. a gallon for diesel fuel, using two engines still can be the way to go because of all of the requirments of the move. And if it had been a delivery by truck it would have been three tractor trailers per carload, on average, if it was shipped by truck. So, either way it is still, by far, the cheapest way to ship large items or quantities. (I guess now with this info, I should be out marketing rail services!)

Thanks!

[Matt Langworthy]

As for 1 unit rather than 2, sometimes a unit needs routine repairs or periodic inspection and is down for a few days. I can't speak for B&H in your specific example but that's one possible explanation.

When the B&H is short on road engines, they will use an S-1 to lead and/or borrow units from another railroad. Examples:

1. an S-1 leading a pair of BNSF widecabs
http://www.lalrailfan.net/gallery/displ ... m=40&pos=4

2. a leased GP-35 from Wisconsin Central
http://alcoworld.railfan.net/b-h.htm

I have to give the B&H credit for resourcefulness.

[Mike Walsh]

Also, another potential reason for 2+ locomotives is to have a backup, in case one fails. You still have a way to get back home.

[RS115]

Matt - out of curiousity what was the occassion for the BNSF widecabs visiting? Or are run-throughs common - I'm not that familiar with B&H operations.
Thanks

[nessman]

When the B&H is short on road engines, they will use an S-1 to lead and/or borrow units from another railroad. Examples:

1. an S-1 leading a pair of BNSF widecabs
http://www.lalrailfan.net/gallery/displ ... m=40&pos=4

Those BNSF engines were being run on the B&H between Bath and Cohocton for a 100 mile shake-out after work was completed on them in Hornell. The B&H was chosen because of the heavy DLW-era rail and its proximity to Hornell.

When the picture was taken, it's likely that the engines were dead-in-tow on their way to the Bath interchange with Conrail (I believe the picture was taken before the Conrail split).

[Luther Brefo]

That makes more sense considering if they had actually leased the engines for a power shortage there would be no sense in using the S1 in a consist with the bigger GE power. Though of course I could be wrong.

[pablo]

Another reason sometimes the S-1 ventures out is for a customer whose curves are so tight the bigger units can't get in there.

Dave Becker

[Luther Brefo]

Another reason sometimes the S-1 ventures out is for a customer whose curves are so tight the bigger units can't get in there.

Dave Becker

Good point. By the way, how is number 5 doing? Last I heard number 4 was in better condition.

[Matt Langworthy]

Thanks for the information, Les.

A good shot of the leased ex-WC GP-35 can be seen in the current issue of Railpace, operating on the B&H (former Erie Rochester Division) in Painted Post.