Railroad Forums 

  • The Wye to Calendonia

  • Discussion pertaining to the past and present operations of the LAL, the WNYP, and the B&H. Official site: LALRR.COM.
Discussion pertaining to the past and present operations of the LAL, the WNYP, and the B&H. Official site: LALRR.COM.

Moderator: Luther Brefo

 #207808  by Luther Brefo
 
Looking at aerial images from 1995, it looks like there was still track from the Erie Lackawanna (which was then Conrail) that wen tot Caledonia north of Avon Yard. Is this wye still there? Is it or was it ever used by the LA&L to turn engines around? Otherwise there is no way for the LA&L to turn its engines.

 #207892  by nessman
 
The wye is still out of service... I'm not sure if tracks are still in place or not.

 #208002  by railwatcher
 
The wye is bare ground both north and south ends. I saw that it was brush cut earlier this year and saw an excavator going down the north side a couple days ago. There is a cement viaduct throughthe ROW about half way from the (still there) girder bridge. Inaccessability is probably keeping this from the wrecking ball, I doubt its a safe bridge.
I would be interested to know if this is considered part of the LAL's ROW.

Greg

 #208756  by nydepot
 
The ROW is owned by some local people or maybe out of Geneseo.

Charles

 #208919  by avonrailfan62
 
The WYE in Avon has been out of service since shortly after the Conrail takeover in '76. It was abandoned at about the same time as the Attica branchline which was almost immediately abandoned by Conrail. It should be noted that I recall the Livonia, Avon, & Lakeville R.R. showing an interest in purchasing the Attica branchline after the Conrail takeover, but it obviously fell by the wayside as Conrail quickly ripped up the rails west of Avon. Again it is interesting to note that the Erie-Lackawanna laid a significant amount of fresh balast on this branchline immediately prior to the Conrail takeover. This would have been a nice secondary (or primary) line for the LA&L, and was from my point of view in relatively reasonable condition for former E-L trackage. The abandoned right-of-way west of Avon is planned to be used for a new branch of the Genesee Valley Greenway Trail to be connected with the main trail where the E-L crossed over the former PRR Rochester Branch about one mile west of Avon on NYS Route 5 in the unmarked Hamlet of Canawaugus (which is noted only by a old NYS Historical Marker) near the four corners at Rte. 5 and the River Road. This new "Greenway" Trail branch into the Village of Avon will include using the abandoned trestle crossing the Genesee River between the Towns of Avon and Caledonia. This is a truly grand old trestle that appears to have been built to last forever! I'm an Avon native and have a decent knowledge of local railroad history if anyone wants to pick my brains!

 #208926  by keeper1616
 
lutherkb wrote:As much as I like Conrail, it seems like they were out to destory anyone who was not Conrail...
Business is business, man... Microsoft is out get anyone who isn't Microsoft too...
 #210547  by Matt Langworthy
 
2 problems with that "business is business theory":

A. It wasn't an ordinary business- Conrail was owned by the federales.

B. CR may have violated its own charter by not offering it for sale to LAL. CR was dominated by for PC management that wanted to expand upon PC's monopoly of the freight amrket by continuing the process under the Conrail banner. EL was sacrificed on the altar of their success.

 #210636  by Aji-tater
 
"Conrail was owned by the Federales"

That no doubt comes to a surprise to all the people who "thought" they owned Conrail stock!
 #210664  by Luther Brefo
 
Matt Langworthy wrote:2 problems with that "business is business theory":

A. It wasn't an ordinary business- Conrail was owned by the federales.

B. CR may have violated its own charter by not offering it for sale to LAL. CR was dominated by for PC management that wanted to expand upon PC's monopoly of the freight amrket by continuing the process under the Conrail banner. EL was sacrificed on the altar of their success.
Point A: That's what I thought... (before it became private)

Point B: Can you explain this further? I'd like explore the history of this further.

 #210766  by BR&P
 
The public stock ownership came later in Conrail's life, after it had turned the corner. Since the wye was evidently torn out fairly soon after Conrail's creation, at the time it was ripped out Conrail was - essentially - owned by the government.

 #210853  by Matt Langworthy
 
Aji-tater wrote:"Conrail was owned by the Federales"

That no doubt comes to a surprise to all the people who "thought" they owned Conrail stock!
CR was defintely a fed operation in the late '70s when the EL west of Avon was removed. The IPO did not occur until 1987.
 #210857  by Matt Langworthy
 
lutherkb wrote:Point B: Can you explain this further? I'd like explore the history of this further.
As I understand it, CR was supposed to offer unwanted track for sale (or susbsidy) to other parties during its first 300 days, though it did not necessarily do so with each route in question. CR had three categories of track: I. profitable track to be kept in the system, II. track which CR would operate if subsidized by a state or local agency, III. track to be abandonned. All track in categories II and III was to be made available to other buyers during CR's first 300 days of existence. This did not happen in the case of the ex-Erie line between Avon and Attica.

There was definitely a cabal of ex-PC officials in the nascent CR who wanted to see the former PRR and NYC routes preserved at any cost. Obvious, preserving the Water Level Route made great sense but I question the wisdom in CR's strategic planning. Let's not forget that CR actually tore up other EL lines (like 100' of track in Corry in 1995) in violation of existing laws or court orders to maintain its monopoly.
Last edited by Matt Langworthy on Sat Oct 07, 2006 9:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.

 #210936  by nessman
 
Not to get off topic here, but I think you're missing the point of Conrail.

Conrail wasn't out to destroy E-L. They needed to keep trackage that was in good shape, had sufficient traffic and would turn a profit. Remember that railroads competed with each other - which is why it was not uncommon to see 2 or more railroads serve the same city.

When Conrail came into play - it was pointless to keep multiple sets of rails that went to the same places.

Rochester alone in 1976 was served by PC, B&O, EL and LV. The B&O was solvent and therefore not folded into Conrail. That left the PC, EL and LV. PC served most of the major cities in NY. LV served smaller cities and larger towns along it's route, and the EL served the cities in the Southern Tier of NY. Ultimately the LV paid the price because it lacked traffic and from Buffalo to Batavia it was redunant to the PC. Parts that were viable were saved - anything else was abandoned.

Common business sense.

 #210965  by BR&P
 
Matt, you're close but a little bit off on those categories. In preparation for Conrail's creation, the USRA took all the predecessor railroads and identified them by segment. After research and input from various interested parties, they published the Preliminary System Plan. This gave a proposed list of what lines would be conveyed to Conrail and which would not.

After further input from shippers, railroads, and public entities, they published the Final System Plan. There were some changes from the PSP, other lines remained in the same status.

You imply that Conrail had to keep all the trackage for a while, which is incorrect. The fact is that many lines saw their last train ever on March 31st, or even a few days before. Other lines were continued in operation with Conrail as "Designated Operator", performing the service under subsidy while shippers either made arrangements to do without rail, or shortlines were created to take over. One problem from the shippers' points of view was that Conrail provided only necessary service, only as long as they were paid, and had no incentive to market or develop business on these lines.

The Avon-North Alexander segment was identified as USRA Line #1240. The FSP states:" This portion of the Attica Branch shall be offered for sale to the Chessie System....If this offer is not accepted, the portion of the line from MP 388.8 to 390.8 (Batavia) and 366.2 to 366.4 (Avon) will be transfered to Consolidated Rail Corp. The remainder of the line....is NOT designated for transfer to Consolidated Rail Corp....."

I would guess that 366.2 to 366.4 was the wye, and CR subsequently decided it was not worth maintaining and paying New York State's taxes on it.