Railroad Forums 

Discussion of Canadian Passenger Rail Services such as AMT (Montreal), Go Transit (Toronto), VIA Rail, and other Canadian Railways and Transit

Moderator: Ken V

 #697821  by AgentSkelly
 
ramonesfan wrote:it could be a long one. great via rail will end up going out of buiness cause of this strike. I say fire the strikers and hire non-union workers.
Good luck with that. While it could be done with other crafts, anyone working the railroad would not let non-union employees touch a locomotive.
 #697842  by jp1822
 
ramonesfan wrote:it could be a long one. great via rail will end up going out of buiness cause of this strike. I say fire the strikers and hire non-union workers.
Although I am all for your suggesion, I am not sure how one does that. Actually wasn't it up until the 1990s or so that VIA actually used CN or CP engineers.

The conductors and baggage folks employed by VIA were "gone" or should I say restructured after various cuts in the 1990s. For example, there's no real "conductor" on the long distance trains like on Amtrak. Instead you have sleeping car attendants, dining car staff, coach car attendants, and the chief of onboard services. But they travel with the train over the entire route, while only the engineers switch out. I believe as part of eliminating the conductor, assistant conductor, and baggage staff (baggage staff is largely done by those who handle ticket reservations at various stations, except for the big stations like Toronto, Vancouver, Montreal etc.), VIA had to put two engineers up in the diesel engine. I could be wrong on the details, but the overall plan sort of plays out. The exception to this rule may be the Windsor/Sarnia and Quebec City corridor (eastern corridor service). IMHO I think the onboard service plan works out well for VIA and certainly must save the company money (hotel cost etc.) if they just have to switch out the engineers enroute. Course the Canadian goes an extra step and has a change of staff at Winnipeg, and with its new schedule of four nights, they had to establish a new crew base for the Canadian out of Toronto (which actually could be eating into the revenue now). Thanks CN (who couldn't deliver the train over the route on the old schedule with good OTP!).
 #697845  by Noel Weaver
 
ramonesfan wrote:it could be a long one. great via rail will end up going out of buiness cause of this strike. I say fire the strikers and hire non-union workers.
There are two sides of every labor dispute, apparently the workers side means NOTHING TO YOU. I am very glad that you
have absolutely nothing to say in this issue.
Noel Weaver
 #697846  by ramonesfan
 
Noel Weaver wrote:
ramonesfan wrote:it could be a long one. great via rail will end up going out of buiness cause of this strike. I say fire the strikers and hire non-union workers.
There are two sides of every labor dispute, apparently the workers side means NOTHING TO YOU. I am very glad that you
have absolutely nothing to say in this issue.
Noel Weaver
THEY HAVE BEEN WORKING WITHOUT A CONTRACT FOR 3 YEARS and there just now complaining about it. in this economy they should be thankfull they even had a job. im glade you see it THAT WAY. there also punishing there familys buy not bringing home a paycheck so they can feed there family. i bet you didn't think of that now did you.
 #697850  by ramonesfan
 
heres a list of stations that will remain open untill july 29th to process refunds

Stations Open for refund until Business hours (local hours)
Québec City July 29 inclusively 8:00 a.m. - 6:00 p.m.
Montréal July 29 inclusively 8:00 a.m. - 6:00 p.m.
Dorval July 29 inclusively 8:00 a.m. - 6:00 p.m.
Ottawa July 29 inclusively 8:00 a.m. - 6:00 p.m.
Kingston July 29 inclusively 8:00 a.m. - 6:00 p.m.
Toronto July 29 inclusively 8:00 a.m. - 6:00 p.m.
London July 29 inclusively 8:00 a.m. - 6:00 p.m.
Kitchener July 29 inclusively 8:00 a.m. - 6:00 p.m.
Windsor July 29 inclusively 8:00 a.m. - 6:00 p.m.
Winnipeg July 29 inclusively 8:00 a.m. - 6:00 p.m.
Jasper July 29 inclusively 8:00 a.m. - 6:00 p.m.
Vancouver July 29 inclusively 8:00 a.m. - 6:00 p.m.
Edmonton July 29 inclusively 8:00 a.m. - 6:00 p.m.
Bathurst July 29 inclusively 8:00 a.m. - 6:00 p.m.
Moncton July 29 inclusively 8:00 a.m. - 6:00 p.m.
Halifax July 29 inclusively 8:00 a.m. - 6:00 p.m.
 #697854  by Gilbert B Norman
 
Here is Associated Press reportage filed within the past half hour (courtesy Buffalo News):

http://www.buffalonews.com/145/story/744069.html

Video from Sun Media (Toronto Sun):

http://www.torontosun.com/news/2009/07/24/10254711.html

To continue, does anybody here have knowledge of underlying Canadian labor relations law; is there law affecting all organized labor, such as we have in the "trilogy' (Wagner, Taft-Hartley, Landrum-Griffin) as well as industry specific law relating to railroads such as the Railway Labor Act. "from what I've read' (discussion at other forums, news clips), it appears that strikes are quite endemic in Canada.

Finally allow me to note that if this dispute involved US railroads, the hackneyed "working without a contract" party-line is simply false. While on a US road, there could well be unresolved Section 6 Notices, there is a contract as such as into perpetuity until changed.
 #697983  by viahogger
 
ramonesfan wrote:
Noel Weaver wrote:
ramonesfan wrote:it could be a long one. great via rail will end up going out of buiness cause of this strike. I say fire the strikers and hire non-union workers.
There are two sides of every labor dispute, apparently the workers side means NOTHING TO YOU. I am very glad that you
have absolutely nothing to say in this issue.
Noel Weaver
THEY HAVE BEEN WORKING WITHOUT A CONTRACT FOR 3 YEARS and there just now complaining about it. in this economy they should be thankfull they even had a job. im glade you see it THAT WAY. there also punishing there familys buy not bringing home a paycheck so they can feed there family. i bet you didn't think of that now did you.

Actually Ramonesfan we have been complaining about it for some time now. We have been over 2 1/2 years without a contract and prior to that 2006 we were also working without a contract again prior to signing in 2006 we were over 2 years without a contract. So I would say that we have been very patient with Via Rail over the last decade and only now is it actually coming to a strike. Any other union would have served notice to strike a long long time ago! The last time a strike actually effected passengers was back in 1995 14 years ago. Civic workers, LCBO, Municipal, teachers etc etc have little patience when it comes to these things as has been proven. Nobody is arguing about the poor state of the economy but wages and benefits are not the key issues anyway. The ability to have 2 consecutive days off so we can actually spend some time with our families is one of our main issues. Another is proper training for locomotive engineers. Engineers have to be re-qualified every 3 years and recently Via has began cheaping out on training, and as a result there have been an increase in serious rule violations and general lack of knowledge when it comes to equipment. New employees have not been shown the proper way to do various tasks with the equipment and this lack of knowledge is leading to dangerous situations out on the road, but if you feel safe hurtling down the tracks at 100 mph with poorly trained employees so be it. As for benefits yes we do have them but they are not what I would consider extravagant. We have basic dental and medical coverage but lack a lot of the benefits other unions have including things like sick days, benefits after retirement, and shift differential, no paid lunch breaks, or any other paid breaks for that matter. But were not asking for any of that! Were asking for 2 consecutive days off, proper training, and fare wage and benefit increases. There are other demands that the company has like double crewing of trains like The "Canadian" that would mean having more then 1 crew on board at all times. This would devastate crew bases across the West and the East, not to mention you would have engineers trying to sleep back in the sleepers. These same engineers will beyond a doubt be more fatigued and is just asking for a major accident (I cant sleep on a train even when on vacation)

Via is also looking at increasing the amount of time I spend away from home. Right now I work 160 hours a month and I am gone about 260 hours away from home, for the extra 100 hours on the road I receive no compensation. If Via gets it's way I will be almost 300 hours away from home every month. Via's definition of a day trip can be up to 20 hours away from home for 16 hours pay, at the end of the day your running on vapours. There have been many trips where your nodding off on the way home......at 95mph!! Does that sound very safe to you?? Truck drivers? Airline Pilots? Do you know anyone that works hours like that in a safety sensitive position? All the union is asking for is fairness and some respect obviously both sides are responsible for this strike not just the union.

Terry Brennan
Engineer Division 747
 #697987  by viahogger
 
ramonesfan wrote:there also punishing there familys buy not bringing home a paycheck so they can feed there family. i bet you didn't think of that now did you.
I asked my wife and 3 kids if they felt like I was punishing them, they gave me a strange look. They know that sometimes you have to make difficult decisions and stand up for one self and what one believes in. They know that I love them and that everything I do, I do for them. They don't want to see me on strike anymore then I do but sometimes these things are unavoidable. They also see the stress and fatigue that the job entails and understand what were fighting for.

Terry Brennan
Engineer Division 747
 #698001  by pablo
 
Regarding the rules in a contract continuing until they expire, there are cases where this is not so, and these cases deal with unions, so I have to think it's possible that such might be the case in some railroad somewhere. Yes, I'm speaking about teaching, but it isn't impossible elsewhere. My personal contract does exactly what GBN was talking about: if it expires, all but the salary continues uninterrupted, and as far as salary goes, you're in a holding pattern.

I am personally familiar with another contract where it states that when it ends, it ends. Would it hold up in court? I have to think not, but it's possible to bargain away rights.

Think I might be wrong? In the Family-Medical Leave Act (FMLA), there are very specific rules about what can and cannot be done, but there is a stipulation that if both sides agree to waive something that is considered a right, the contract holds. Specifically, I'm talking about the part of the Act that deals with whether or not you are per-diem. If the contract says it, even if it's not being practiced, it's the case, despite the protections of the Act.

So, when viahogger says they have been without a contract, do ALL of the former contract's provisions hold up? For all crafts? Like GBN, I'd like to hear from someone who knows.

By the way, in New York, teachers cannot, by law, strike. In Pennsylvania, they can.

Dave Becker
 #698007  by Gilbert B Norman
 
Thank you Mr. Brennan for your submission in behalf the the Employees' position. Is anyone prepared to step forth with an informed statement outlining that of the carrier?
 #698013  by viahogger
 
pablo wrote:So, when viahogger says they have been without a contract, do ALL of the former contract's provisions hold up? For all crafts? Like GBN, I'd like to hear from someone who knows.
By the way, in New York, teachers cannot, by law, strike. In Pennsylvania, they can. Dave Becker
Hi Dave, Yes and no. Even though we are without a contract some basic provisions of the contract remain the same. Our wage does not change our ability to book rest does not change
however many of the local agreements go out the window and many other provisions of the contract will change. An example is our training course which was 2 weeks of rules training, First Aid,
Equipment familiarization, E-learning, and medical hearing and vision tests has disappeared. Granted 2 weeks was too long, a week would have been better but that was what Via Rail wanted. Via Rail
replaced it with a mentoring course that we have to make arrangements for yearly, on the third year we write the rules. We arrange for our own First aid and are no longer given as thorough a medical.
But in general terms a lot doesn't change, but the company will push the boundaries here and there to get what they want through various Estoppel notices (Legal means)

Terry Brennan
Engineer Division 747
 #698066  by viahogger
 
Amtrak700 wrote:I hope you guys get the justice you deserve.
Dave Magill
BLE Division 752
Albany, NY
Dave thanks for your kind words it means a lot. It's always nice to hear from our BLE, UTU, Teamster, and CAW brothers and sisters. Friends and family also know how much this means to us during these difficult times. I was almost moved to tears the other day on the picket line when a co-worker a CAW member came out to offer her support for our cause even though she would be soon receiving a layoff notice, it means so much. Hopefully things will get resolved soon and we can back to what we love doing, running trains!

Terry Brennan
Engineer Division 747
Toronto, ON
Last edited by viahogger on Sat Jul 25, 2009 11:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 #698079  by Noel Weaver
 
Amtrak700 wrote:Good luck to the VIA engineers, I hope you guys get the justice you deserve.
Dave Magill
BLE Division 752
Albany, NY
Dave, I am with you one hundred per cent on this one. ramonesfan probably has no conception of railroading from the
cab nor probably fron the employee standpoint either. You BROTHERS and SISTERS in Canada, I am also with you one hundred per cent. Hang in there together and you will eventually come out OK. The sooner the company realizes that you people are part of the system too, maybe then they will come around and talk in good faith. I hope so.
Good Luck
Noel Weaver, Retired engineer, Conrail, BLE Division 46, Albany, NY.
 #698082  by MACTRAXX
 
Everyone: VIA Hogger describes well the plight of locomotive engineers that are employed by VIA-I have respect for them because without them operating trains you literally have NO railroad! With the responsibilities VIA engineers have they are the most important employees that VIA has in my opinion!

I was wondering how this strike would affect support for VIA Rail in the Canadian Federal Government-have certain politicians become
more anti-VIA? Are VIA's foes using this strike to make themselves known that they do NOT support rail transport in Canada?

I am hoping that both parties can come up with an agreement that they can live and be satistfied with and that it does not compromise
public support for VIA Rail in Canada-I remember the 1990 cutbacks and hopefully something like that will never happen again!

Thoughts and opinion by MACTRAXX