Via Rail's Fleet Renewal Program

The RFQ submission deadline should have passed a couple of hours ago, the short list of qualified applicants and the RFP should all be announced sometime this month.

And we have 4 contenders.

Bombardier Transportation Canada Inc.
Siemens Canada Limited
Stadler US Inc.
Talgo Inc.

All four now have until October 5 2018 to submit their proposal.

https://www.newswire.ca/news-releases/v ... 25791.html

One of the first two seems likely.

Don't Think BBD will win after what happened with TTC light rail and the London(UK),NYCTA contracts/deliveries.
Siemens the best bet to win!

I'll admit I don't know what the various train manufactures will submit, but here are recent trains each makes.......
Bombardier Class 710 in England (4 car EMU - 25KVAC and 750VDC)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Rail_Class_710" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Based on Bombardier "Aventra" trains.

Siemens Class 717 in England (6 car EMU - - 25KVAC and 750VDC)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Rail_Class_717" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Based on Siemens "Desiro City" trains.

Stadler Class 755 in England (3 or 4 car EMU - 25KVAC)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Rail_Class_755" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
I would like to note there are DMU versions of FLIRTs being built in Utah.

Talgo Series 8 in USA
http://web.talgoamerica.com/images/Amra ... ed_opt.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
With Talgo coaches you provide the locomotive.

Yes, I know you're going to suggest that EMUs aren't in VIA's short term future, but these trains can have their EMU stuff removed to make a non-powered trailer rail car.
I just wanted to point out what these manufactures are building in Europe now.

All these manufacturers are capable of building non-powered trailers too.

I would be very surprised if Siemens doesn't submit their existing Challenger/coaches that are in service in the US and thus will be a proven product (something VIA indicated an interest in) that should have minimal issues entering service.

The bigger question is just how likely the electrification dream is, and here I suspect that recent world events are shoving that farther into the future.

These trade wars / tariff battles are going to economically harm countries around the world, and as a result governments will likely be taking hits on their budgets - both from decreased revenue and increased costs as they try to stabilize the harmed industries.

Given this uncertainty I wouldn't be surprised if the federal government declines VIA's dedicated route plan, which while nominally claimed to be privately built would require the federal government to guarantee the project.

Similarly, it wouldn't surprise me if much of the planned electrification by Ontario gets shelved / postponed.

mdvle wrote: Similarly, it wouldn't surprise me if much of the planned electrification by Ontario gets shelved / postponed.

Yeah VIA has committed to continuing at least some service on the existing Corridor even if their hypothetical new corridor is built. Electrification carries enormous capital costs for which recovery at a reasonable return on capital probably would prove impossible. Any hypothetical savings at the engine maintenance shops will easily be consumed by additional costs of maintaining electrical systems out in the field.

Electrification might make sense for the GO corridors in close proximity to Toronto proper, but outside of that, likely is fairly nonsensical. Hopefully VIA doesn't end up discarding and/or limiting some great diesel-electric options merely due to the lack of future electrification capability being pre-engineered into the designs.

The future electrification requirement sounds like BBD leaned on the process to guarantee a spot for an ALP45DP-2. Then again, “compatible with future electrification” could just mean that the manufacturer offers favorable trade-in terms like two used diesels for one new electric.

Backshophoss wrote:Don't Think BBD will win after what happened with TTC light rail and the London(UK),NYCTA contracts/deliveries.
Siemens the best bet to win!

Siemens have probably the best equipment on the shelf, and can leverage Alstom Quebec for Canadian content, but I doubt anyone in VIA HQ (in Montreal) cares what happened in Toronto. It's just... how things work.
http://montrealgazette.com/news/local-n ... etro-order" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

When they say they want the ability to convert modes, what does that mean? I'm not the brightest man on the block, but wouldn't it make sense to use that old trick known as the "coupler" and buy new straight electrics or bi-modes? Rather than buy something that might never be used?

Tadman wrote:When they say they want the ability to convert modes, what does that mean? I'm not the brightest man on the block, but wouldn't it make sense to use that old trick known as the "coupler" and buy new straight electrics or bi-modes? Rather than buy something that might never be used?

The Request for Proposals (section 1.2(3)) says

the initial order of 32 trainsets will be diesel powered only, with a required provision for future diesel and electric operation

My guess - even though VIA apparently has a preference for a loco / coach solution I don't see anything in the RfP that states that. Thus by putting that requirement in they are simply preventing someone from submitting a diesel only DMU as an entry.

Thus as you say if a diesel and coaches solution is submitted then it would be easy to then transition to a new electric loco in the future, or possibly even bimode.

Similar, if someone wants to submit a multiple unit solution then that multiple unit must be designed so that it is diesel powered when delivered but can be upgraded in the future to electric operation as well.

A Stadler FLIRT trainset is an EMU which can have a diesel electric power car added to provide power without wires overhead. Any DMU design using diesel electric propulsion vs using a mechanical gear box or transmission could meet VIA’s RFP, Stadler isn’t the only European manufacturer using diesel electric propulsion with a DMU.

But the point is that the request is suitably generic and thus doesn't make assumptions on what may be proposed.

The key would be even if submitting a DMU design that uses electric motors that space is reserved for the transformers and/or other equipment to possibly in the future convert the (presumably) 25kv overhead to whatever the internal train bus to the motors uses, as well as the ability to convert it to power the onboard systems.

Similarly the bodyshell would need to include the space / frame structure for the pantograph well(s).

It may well be the Stadler North American product already does this, but all the specification for VIA does is ensure that any design from Stadler or others does do the appropriate things. If the specification did not make this clear than a bidder may well leave those design elements out in order to reduce the unit cost, thus making the bid cheaper.

Open comment re: VIA Fleet Renewal Procurement Protocol:
Attempting to acquire bid docs/data/dwgs. for review and proposal of critical OEM sub-system to each shortlisted bidder, however, VIA is restricting this solicitation info to the shortlist bidders. Not a very transparent approach from an organization that has promoted transparency throughout this program......

Reply to doc request -
The bid package, including the technical specifications and related data / drawings have been made available only to the shortlisted builders.
VIA Rail does not intend to distribute the information to subcontractors.

Admin caution:

We are approving the previous post. People who wish to interact with Amsted Rail (the poster has an e-mail address with them) do so at their own risk. If you share VIA documents, consult your own counsel first WRT potential consequences.