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  • Utterly idle curiosity question

  • Discussion of Electro-Motive locomotive products and technology, past and present. Official web site can be found here: http://www.emdiesels.com/.
Discussion of Electro-Motive locomotive products and technology, past and present. Official web site can be found here: http://www.emdiesels.com/.

Moderator: GOLDEN-ARM

 #261397  by Allen Hazen
 
The OLD Norfolk Southern-- the minor railroad that had the U.S. smallest 2-8-4 steam locomotives-- bought, as its last new locomotives, some E.M.D. low-nose GP-18 (I think it was GP-18). When the N.S. was merged into the Southern, these locomotives had "prosthetic surgery": they were given HIHG noses.

Now, E.M.D. roadswitchers seem to last a long time, so I would guess that at least some of these units are still in existence, pulling trains for some shortline. QUESTION: have any of them been chop-nosed?

(Can't get curiosity much idler than that!)

 #261414  by SSW9389
 
Allen: NS had seven GP38s. Data from A J Kristopans website. :wink:

31782-31783 06/66 (7895)
Norfolk Southern 2001-2002

32308-32309 10/66 (7925)
Norfolk Southern 2003-2004

32491-32493 06-07/67 (7937)
Norfolk Southern 2005-2007

Ask this question on the NS Forum.

Ed

 #261431  by crazy_nip
 
the GP18's and GP38's were delevered to NS short nosed and I have nothing to indicate that when the souther ry took them over that they made them high nose.

That is something the railroads would not take the time, effort and money to do, even a stubborn railroad like the southern.

The N&W recieved alot of low nose locomotives from the nickel plate and wabash and never bothered to make them high nose.

 #261439  by Allen Hazen
 
SSW9389--
Thanks! I'd forgotten they were 38's.
Crazy Nip--
Unless my memory is even worse than I already know it is, a stubborn railroad like the Southern would and did: I've seen a photo of one before repainting, with the new upper part of the short hood contrasting in color with the older lower portion. Sorry, but the totally implausible is sometimes true.

 #261621  by crazy_nip
 
guess you were right... southern did some pretty stupid things, this is one of them

Image

here is a page devoted to one of the units, which is apparantly still operational, and still high hood

http://www.geocities.com/lxvrengr/8085.html

 #261936  by GOLDEN-ARM
 
My understanding is, (from Jack Martin, my next door neighbor, while growing up, Sr. VP Operations, SouRy) is these were done to allow a "walk-in" toilet compartment, with the stand-up urinal, Southern was so (in)famous for.It was a contractual thing, with the unions. Regards :-D

 #261958  by LCJ
 
I was always under the impression that they did this to protect crews from log trucks that they hit on private crossings quite frequently in the South.

 #261965  by GOLDEN-ARM
 
That was the reason for running "hammerhead", although it could be argued that the high hood was for protection when running backwards. Jack related to me the fact that the toilet door was to be of a "walk-through" type, for agreement purposes, with collision protection likely being secondary. Notice NW also had the long hood protection, for their crews, but when acquiring merged locos, the short hoods remained, after "turning" long hood forward, with some units remaining "normal", or short hood lead. Those "toadstool" seats, rain gutters, catwalk lights were also agreement issues. I spent 2 years, in Atlanta (Dunwoody) during high school years, and spent many a day, riding the Stone Mountain drill, the B.O.P. switchers, and the Inman turns.(nothing better than living next door to the Senior VP of Ops, for getting swag, and cab-rides) I never really got into the whole "hammerhead" thing, or those plastic bag toilets, but the experience of learning to run, "Southern" style, has stuck with me, through the years. regards :-D

 #270717  by conrail_engineer
 
LCJ wrote:I was always under the impression that they did this to protect crews from log trucks that they hit on private crossings quite frequently in the South.
Ha! And I was under the impression that they did it because they'd always done it that way.

I've had both types: An SD or GP-38 (don't remember now) with a low nose and the control stand put in to run hammerhead. It was our leader and with the short, low nose leading; a good thing since Conrail required reduced speed when running long-nose first. I'd been an engineer-trainee all of a week; and there I sat on the "conductor's" seat with the throttle behind me like a boat-tiller, trying to run the thing.

The other was a high-nosed GP-38 with dual control stands. The walk-in toilet was a nice touch; but the lack of visibility and those space-eating pair of stands made that day a pain otherwise. It was like trying to work out of a tank-turret...end of the day I felt like a mushroom farmer, coming out into the light.

 #271256  by GOLDEN-ARM
 
They must have changed the rules, later in the game. When I was running the UCR and UOR coal trains, to Thomkins Cove, and Roseton, power was usually NS. We occasionally got them in the lead (if we didn't refuse them, for lack of toilet) and we had no "hammerhead" restrictions. Most locals that worked over the road, had to return to on duty point, at some time, and we ran them backwards as well, at track speed (plus 10%) :-D We did actually like to run something, other than blue, and back then, the NS units still had white flags, which we always displayed, when running the loads north. There were no restrictions in place, for any locos, other than a single lite engine, as far as I remember. I had a "killer" dynamic brake fire, one night, coming down the hill, into Haverstraw. The whole grid section, fan and cables were gone, by the time the fire department decided to put out the remains of the fire. (they didn't believe us, even after shutting down the engine, and uncoupling from it, that there wasn't still electricity in the loco.)The fire started before we got into the tunnel, at the top, and the road by the station was our best bet for help, or so we thought. :P