Utica Branch Discussion Thread

[cjvrr]

But in place and in service with *who*?
Will it remain NYSW?

and what about the NYSW Utica shop?
if the Utica branch is (mostly) abandoned, the NYSW Utica shop and Utica trackage will be disconnected from its own mainline, and they will have to run over CSX to Syracuse to hook back up their own tracks..
will CSX allow that?

Scot

At this time there has been no official word that the operator would be anyone other than the NYS&W.

Since the line closure in June of 2006 the NYS&W has ferried engines, passenger cars and freight cars back and forth between the CSX interchange in Utica and Syracuse. I am sure they have some deal worked out on cost. It would be my guess that most of the freight cars destined for the Utica Branch came from CSX anyway. Deadheading equipment to the shop may be costly, but is it more costly than repairing and maintaining the line? I do not know.

[blockline4180]

There is an outside slight chance that a tourist operation or dinner train may eventually set up some agreement with Chenango County to run from Norwich down to Chenango Forks..This was discussed yesterday on another list..

The tracks appear to go through some scenic countryside so I would think it could bring in some more tourism to the area.. Like I said this was all just talk and probably a long shot so I wouldn't hold my breath until something is planned out or brought to the table by Mr. JoeCollege...

[RussNelson]

wow..this abandonment will leave Norwich without any railroad.
Norwich was once quite a "railroad town"..with the DL&W and a major O&W yard and shop complex.

Not to mention the Auburn Branch.

[ricebrianrice]

I think if we look back, the line was all but abandoned already. There was not much activity before the flood damage. The flood gave them a reason to close the line.

[ut-1]

I wouldn't exactly say that the line was "all but abandoned" before June 2006. ALL cars bound for Sherburne, Sangerfield & Utica came through Chenango Forks which probably amounted to 10-12 freights per week. In 2002-03, major work was completed on the line from CF to Utica (courtesy of a $3 million grant from New York State). And let's not be too premature: no official announcement has been made (the Norwich newspaper article quotes a Chenango County IDA official who's had contact with the NYS&W), no abandonment petition (the previous STB filing was NOT an abandonment petition but simply stated the line from CF to Sangerfield MAY be the subject of an abandonment petition w/i the next 3 years) has been filed with the Surface Transportation Board, there is no guarantee that the STB would grant such a petition particularly if the communities along the line oppose it and there's always the outside chance the State may come up with some $$$ to repair the line (Sen. Libous & Walter Rich had a close relationship, at least before the NYRI debacle). The wildcard in all this remains NYRI's application to stick upstate with their proposed power line: it certainly seems reasonable to assume NYRI would have an easier time constructing the line from an engineering standpoint if part of the Utica mainline was kaput. All things considered, this play still has a few more acts left before we'll know for certain whether the curtain will finally fall on PART of the Utica main.

[dansapo]

What I do not get is the damage is estimated between 250-500k. Really not a lot of money. Yet they are willing to shuttle trains from their Utica shops to Syracuse.Am I missing something?

[washingtonsecondary]

A frequent poster to RR.net has this in his signature:

"If you don't work for the railroad, you don't know more than the people who do, no matter how many years you've hung around the tracks, or how well you think you understand railroading."

In other words, the railroad has its reasons.

[rcbsd45]

Having read the article, I am inclined to note the following. Nathan Fenno, the cororate spokesman in this case(and corporate counsel full time, I believe)was towing the company line. The railroad in the past has gotten grants to upgrade and maintain their properties(I believe the whole OnTrack service in the Syracuse area is the result of some financial underwriting,so correct me if I'm wrong.) In the past, WR and the board have shown themsleves to be, if nothing else, shrewd businessmen who have made the NYS&W into what it has become. And that is a regional railroad with some pretty decent amount of business along both its divisions.
I am curious as to why the railroad would be content with having to pay CSX to move equipment to Utica via Syracuse for mechanical work and inspections. It just seems to me that there is an underlying subtext to this. Maybe the railroad simply doesn't want to foot the bill, and crying poverty/insufficent monies is their tactic. They have also employed the "we don't have the money" tactic when it comes to labor negotiaions, as the BLE&T union is now over 3 YEARS without a contract and the commpany management is attempting to "starve" the crews by eliminating any and all overtime. As a customer driven industry, the company should never let the customer come second to some bean counting corporate minion who has something to prove by "playing hardball" with the unions for his own personal own gain and let the communities and customers come second.
There is plenty of money in Washington and Albany to go around, and since both legislative bodies spend like drunken sailors, I'm suprised the railroad hasn't suggested that some grant money be made available for repairs.(Could a new Democratic Governor in Albany have something to do with the railroad's reluctance to pursue funds on a state level? Hmmmmmm...)
I just find it interesting in terms of timing and such. If the railroad wanted to make repairs, they could find the money as in the past, NYRI project or not. Just that their cry of not enough money in the bank comes at the same time they are refusing to settle the outstanding labor agreement with the BLE&T. And this claim of not enough money to make even basic repairs would, on the surface, boost their poverty claims should the labor negotiations go to arbitration and a settlement be imposed. And yet, the railroad has been sending locomotives out for overhaul and rehab(some units for two and three attempts, even!), which they have to pay for. I just find their argument and timing somewhat suspect, and some of their tactics even more so.

[RSD15]

channel 10 in syracuse is reporting that the power line people are looking at an alternative route using existing power line rights of way,and will not need the NYSW right of way.

[erielackawanna]

Is PC Yard a new moniker, or would it have been called that back in the 1970s? Also, what does the PC stand for?

Thanks.

[SooLineRob]

There was a list reproduced years ago of all the telegraph call letters of all NYS&W stations, from the days of timetable/train order (telegraph key) operations before telephones and radios were used. Instead of typing out (think Morse Code) a station's full name like S-P-A-R-T-A-J-C-T, train Dispatchers and Operators would use the approved "shorthand" call letters for the station.

I remember several of the call letters, but not how they got their letters. "BA" is Butler, but I don't recall how the "a" got in there. The ones I do remember off the top of my head:

WS=Little Ferry, as in the original "Little Ferry" station just west of Overpeck Creek Draw, "WS" stood for "West Shore" due to it's proximity to the New York Central.

PC=Passaic Jct, Passaic Jct due to it's proximity to the Passaic Branch and nearby yard

SA=Sparta

SJ=Sparta Jct

I haven't seen this list for awhile. If it surfaces, I'll forward it to this Forum.

[SecaucusJunction]

Isnt Butler- BA? And Oakland - DK? Figure that one out.

[Otto Vondrak]

Back to the Utica Branch, please... start a new sign if you want to discuss NYSW call signs, etc.

[ANDY117]

I would be very surprised if it reopened. Especially at this point.

[Noel Weaver]

Back to the Utica Branch, please... start a new sign if you want to discuss NYSW call signs, etc.

THANK YOU, OTTO, I wonder how this thread got "hijacked".
Noel Weaver