Discussion relating to the past and present operations of the NYC Subway, PATH, and Staten Island Railway (SIRT).

Moderator: GirlOnTheTrain

  by Jeff Smith
I'm kind of surprised we didn't have a topic on this; at least I couldn't find anything with the word "Utica" in the title in this forum.

Subway blogger Benjamin Kabak opines on this proposal: Second Avenue Sagas

Brief, fair-use:
On the Utica Ave. subway, a half-baked idea with no champion

Half a political lifetime ago, Bill de Blasio seemed interested in extending transit to under-served neighborhoods on his own. He didn’t require a giant push from real estate interests looking to boost property values in already-gentrified neighborhoods, and he seemed on the verge of following through on Mayor Bloomberg’s realization that the city could bypass Albany by funding its own subway expansion plans. That moment involved the OneNYC proposal and the Mayor’s call for a study to assess a Utica Ave. subway.

Perhaps we — the general transit-lovin’ community of New Yorkers who pay close attention to this kind of stuff — got too excited by it. After all, when I went back tonight to re-read my post from April of 2015, it seems clear that de Blasio wasn’t asking for much. He wanted a study of Utica Ave. and committed the bare minimum of dollars to the project. But as we sit here in 2017, the year in which the MTA was expected to spend the dollars for the study, nothing has happened.
and an earlier post: http://secondavenuesagas.com/2015/04/23 ... interests/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
...The document doesn’t go too far here. The mayor wants simply “a study to explore the expansion of the subway system south along Utica Avenue in Brooklyn, one of the densest areas of the city without direct access to the subway,” and on its face, it’s exciting that someone in City Hall is talking about this idea in an official document. It is so far unclear how a Utica Ave. subway would take shape. It could involve an extension of the 4 train from the Eastern Parkway line. It could call back to Second System plans to run trains from 2nd Ave. through South 4th St. and, eventually, down Utica Ave. But there you have it.

As The Times noted, this is far from the first time this idea has arisen. A Utica Ave. subway was part of the early 1900s plans for the subway and were included in expansion plans in the 1920s, 1930s and 1960s. Another study today seems like overkill, but it’s the first step toward securing funding. It’s a very preliminary first step though.
The Times article referenced above had a nice map: https://www.nytimes.com/2015/04/23/nyre ... f=nyregion" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
...The dream of a Utica Avenue line has had plenty of false starts.

Its plight was outlined in the 2013 book “The Routes Not Taken: A Trip Through New York City’s Unbuilt Subway System,” by Joseph B. Raskin, a former New York City Transit employee. Past proposals would have connected it to the No. 3 and 4 lines, the A and C lines, or even to Lower Manhattan. “It’s always been to me one of the lines that should have been built all along,” Mr. Raskin said. “The question was always what line is it going to plug into — and the cost.”
  by Greg Moore
Even though I don't live in NYC, I sometimes fantasize about how the subway network could be expanded (and I think should, NYC is an economic powerhouse and what helps NYC helps NYS).
This has been on the list, it's a fairly obvious one (as would be then extended the L line to intersect this and the other lines to the SW of it.

But hell, we can't build the SAS in a reasonable timeframe. This won't happen in my life time.
  by SemperFidelis
An excellent read I am just about 1/4 of the way through:

The Routes Not Taken by Joseph Raskin.

Small typed, sparsely illustrated, detailed account of the many dozens of lines the New York City Subway never completed, didn't build, or put significant plannig efforts into.
  by umtrr-author
I have that book too. It's a slow read for me, I have to take my time to try to soak in all of the detail. But well worth the effort.
  by SemperFidelis
My very nationalish Polish mother made me read "The Gulag Archipelago". By Alexander Solzenitz for a book report.,,when I was in 4th grade...so my standards of interesting reading are confusing even to me.

"Conquering Gotham" isn't exactly on topic, but it is a much easier, more enjoyable read.
  by Jeff Smith
https://theislandnow.com/opinions-100/r ... g-studies/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

At the request of Mayor Bill de Blasio, the MTA allocated $5 million in funding under the $32 billion 2015-2019 Five Year Capital Program to initiate a feasibility study for building a Utica Avenue subway extension in Brooklyn. The Utica Avenue subway was originally proposed by New York City Mayor Hyland in 1922. The concept would construct extensions for both the No. 3 and No. 4 original IRT subway lines in East Flatbush. It would be built along Utica Avenue from Eastern Parkway to Avenue U. Costs for both the first phase of Second Avenue and No. 7 subway line extension averaged $2 billion plus per mile. One can only imagine how many billions would be required to do the same along Utica Avenue.

Four years later, the MTA has yet to issue a Request for Proposals to hire any engineering consulting firm to perform this study. This contradicts a past Regional Planning Association report, which states that “an assessment should be forthcoming.” It may be a clear sign that the MTA is not interested in pursuing this project. This proposal may represent a waste of taxpayers dollars for yet another transportation feasibility study.

  by Jeff Smith
Doctor, I think we have a heartbeat:

https://nypost.com/2021/02/22/biden-inf ... y-schumer/
The cash-strapped MTA could expand subway service into the “transit desert” of southeast Brooklyn if President Biden and the Democratic-led Congress pass a multi-trillion dollar “Build it Back” infrastructure program, Sen. Chuck Schumer said.

“There’s some talk that if we get the $4 trillion we can build a subway line to southeast Brooklyn, which is a subway desert,” Schumer told the Brooklyn Chamber of Commerce during a Zoom talk on Friday.

City leaders have tossed around the idea for over a century to extend the subway down Utica Avenue to serve the train-less corner of southeast Brooklyn including East Flatbush, Flatlands and Marine Park.
  by STrRedWolf
Okay, you got my interest. Full-on speculation, with some research.

If you build it IRT style, you're looping from Crown Heights/Utica Av 3/4 down Utica to Marine Park (maybe more along Flatbush Ave, but that's questionable). You'll reroute the 3 and extend the 4 to cover the 3's old route (which it did on pre-pandemic overnights). That would be the "cheapest" option.

If you build it BMT/IND style... Well, I can see transfer points at Crown Heights/Utica Av 3/4, Utica Av A/C, and hooking onto the Myrtle Av J/M/Z to get into Manhattan. However, once past Delancey St/Essex St F/J/M/Z, it switches to the 2nd Ave Subway and goes all the way up to 125th. You get a K or V line, and it's contingent on The T's Phase 3.