Union Rejects Contract

The NYCT Union members have rejected their contract by a margin of 7 votes (sound fishy?).

It's time for someone to end this garbage, maybe time for a mass firing; time for some people that actually want to work to take the job on.

arrow wrote:The NYCT Union members have rejected their contract by a margin of 7 votes (sound fishy?).

It's time for someone to end this garbage, maybe time for a mass firing; time for some people that actually want to work to take the job on.

Right on.

Personally, I'd love a job where I could retire at age 55, with my retirement based upon my salary during the last year of work...when I pick up every overtime shift available. And by the way, I don't pay a dime for health care.

These guys are exceptionally greedy.

NHRR, you should take a test to get into the TA since you think we got it made. I think filing is closing soon for bus operator. Come on, give it a try! BTW, retirement is based on your salary for the last 5 years, not the last one like you indicated. They take the final average salary for the best 3 consecutive years. This number is your pension.

BTW, I don't have free healthcare. Unless you think co payments don't count.

That would be a bit difficult, since I live in Virginia.

The terms your union negotiated were quite generous. Look around and see what's happening to major corporations with defined-benefit pension plans. You can only go to the well so many times before it's dry. And why shouldn't you pay a co-payment for health care? Who is supposed to absorb the ever-increasing costs? The city taxpayers?

Go cry somewhere else. I'm not moved.

I do find it interesting that this has been a quiet topic, giving the large number of responses we got in the other topic, I think many of the union sympathizers have taken back their sympathy after the latest rejection.

Yanks Rule wrote:you should take a test to get into the TA since you think we got it made. BTW, I don't have free healthcare. Unless you think co payments don't count.

I pay 100% of the cost of my health insurance (not just co-payments). I will have no pension when -- and if -- I can ever retire. And my work can be as stressful/dangerous/hazardous to my health as any job held by anyone at the MTA.

Which makes me just like hundreds of thousands of other workers in New York City.

The trains run late. The trains are often filthy. And every day, as I pass stations and stretches of track where "work" is supposedly being done, I see an awful lot of guys in orange safety vests standing around doing absolutely nothing.

So what, exactly, do you think you do to deserve the benefits that so many harder-working Americans will never have?

NHRR, I wasn't crying about co payments. I was stating that I don't have free healthcare. Maybe co payments to you mean free but to me it doesn't. Stating a fact and crying about it are two different things.

Arrow, since you are a buff, you probably would do the work for minimum wage. Am I right? Sorry bro, you can't fire people for rejecting a contract. I guess it's ok as far as you're concernerd for supervisors who make more $$ than local 100 members to pay less into healthcare. Yeah that's right. Bet you didn't know that.

As for you EastCleveland, you don't know what is going on when General Orders are in effect. Do you have a copy of the scope of work to be done on a section of track? Who the hell are you to determine whether guys standing around are doing their work or not? BTW, your fellow passengers are to blame for dirty cars. Tell them to take their chicken bones and soda cans off the train when they exit. Also, train crews are not responsible for late trains. Operations planning writes the schedules. So instead of blaming train crews, get up off your ass and blame the suits for once!

First off, I wouldn't consider myself a 'buff', just someone that's interested in trains and happens to also work in a related field. Secondly, we have 8 pages of *mature* conversation in the original strike thread, I think that we can continue that here and not have an attitude with those that have different opinions. Thanks.

To elaborate on my original point, there are plenty of people who have lousy jobs, or no job at all, that would love to work for someplace with decent pay and great benefits, such as the MTA. As someone who has no affiliation to the union or to the MTA, I think the union comes across as being selfish right now. Whether or not that is true I don't know, but I think there are plenty of others (i.e. most of the public) that share my opinion.

And yes, you can get fired for rejecting a contract..take a look at the air traffic controllers in the 70's, the MTA has no obligation to have anyone working right now. If they want the trains and buses to move, they obviously have no choice though.

arrow wrote:I do find it interesting that this has been a quiet topic, giving the large number of responses we got in the other topic, I think many of the union sympathizers have taken back their sympathy after the latest rejection.

And the picture the NY Post had recently of the token clerk sleeping in the booth isn't helping the union's cause with the general public, either. At this point if there was another strike what little sympathy I have left for the union would evaporate completely. We still definitely need the train and bus operators, and (for now) the conductors. However, in the event of another strike the token clerks should all be let go, with the conductors to soon follow by implementing OPTO system-wide. CBTC could potentially get rid of the train operators as well but the MTA never mentioned having nobody in the cab.

IMHO it's only a matter of time before most of the routine jobs in the system can be done more efficiently and cheaply by robots. Certainly in twenty years (perhaps even ten) things like cleaning will no longer be done by humans. Ten years after that you'll probably only need humans for dispatching and higher level managerial positions. All I can say to the present transit workers is enjoy what you have now. You'll probably be the last generation to enjoy a job not requiring a college degree with these kinds of benefits. The coming robotics revolution will obsolete not only your jobs, but most union civil service type jobs, and most menial labor jobs as well.

arrow wrote:I do find it interesting that this has been a quiet topic, giving the large number of responses we got in the other topic, I think many of the union sympathizers have taken back their sympathy after the latest rejection.

I think you misunderstood the point of some posts on there. For my part, I wasn't sympathetic of the behavior of the union president. However, I wanted to hammer the point home that if the passengers were more supportive of the union (specifically, their members more than their officers), then the politicians who run the MTA would not allow such a situation to arise. Apathy simply gives the politicians more power, and gives them licence to be oppressive.

And if you don't like conditions where you are at yourself, and want to make things better? Laying down and dying under corporate and political oppression won't help—you had better organize and claim your rights. The dollar continues to leave the country at an accelerated rate. High time something was done about that.

NHRR WTBY wrote:Look around and see what's happening to major corporations with defined-benefit pension plans. You can only go to the well so many times before it's dry

What's drying up the well is the salaries of corporate officers, not pension plans. Ever take a look at what a CEO of a major corporation is given when he's fired?

Worry about ExxonMobil's new round of record profits instead of the MTA workers, I suggest.

Irish,

I don't think I misunderstood any of the posts, and I wasn't implying that all the posts there were from union sympathizers. It's just strange that all of a sudden nobody has an opinion.

There is only so much you can "fight for your rights". After a while, you have to step back and take a look at what you *do* have instead of what you don't have. Then you can make an educated decision on what is best for yourself and your family. The fact of the matter is that nobody is forcing the transit workers to work there, if they feel it's that bad then why don't they go try another job? Maybe they'll be happy they did or maybe they'll realize what they lost out on. I don't think anyone can argue with that.

That's certainly reasonable.

However, I would like more accountability for MTA officers, and the politiicans who support them. As I learned from a brief stint at the USPS, employees of government agencies are subject to negative psychological treatment by management, from the low-level supervisors upward.

As far as the NYCTA goes, it's heading straight for binding arbitration, and faster with every rejected contract offer.

Binding arbitration should be the only thing being considered, especially right now. Assuming the arbitrator is unbiased, it does seem like the best way to go since he or she will hopefully arrive at what's best for both sides (granted that is in an ideal world - a place where we obviously do not live).

I understand the concerns of the MTA workers and they shouldn't be subjected to abuse of any kind like what happens here in the Military some of which I came in contact to but they shouldn't have to strike again. I couldn't strike out here in Iraq because that would endanger not only our lives but the country as well. They are resposnible for helping New Yoers get around esp those who cannot afford vehicles so why should a strike that will only punish the weakest amongst us occur.

In the words of Ronald Reagan "FIRE THEM ALL!!!" They should know beter then to cause strife for someone else who are at jobs that are more punishing in terms of less pay, abuse from upper and lower managment and now they have to go through this?

After breif stints in various retail outfits dealing with supermarkets shops you'd go to in the local mall these guys have it worse. most of these people don't have unions or healthcare at all and alot of these people are young or really old.

With the Army we have to deal with alot of BS esp the soldiers in the ranks of E-1 to E-4 from overzealous NCOs and offers who love to make a point for no reason just to make us suffer. Btu for the greater good we are not going to go on strike because as past events show bad things happen.

I wish I could get the amount of money and healthcare that the MTA guys would get along with a tough as nails Union who got a contract like that for you in the amry other wise I'd probably do a full 20 yrs. Personally I didn' t think you'd get that much at all.

Remember that there are thsoe that are suffering even more from there jobs who don't have a tough representation or get away with things as you MTA People.

I'd get my ass handed to me for even a 1/3rd of the things that you MTA, police officers and others get away with and unfortionatly I don't have a PBA or an MTA union members to help me out of a jam. We do get Equal Opportunity reps but that's a joke after seeing the abuse suffered by soldiers and the NCO's and officers getting away with a slap on the wrist while the soldiers are cronically screwed over and people wonder why the military cannot get enough soldiers.

Again, If I recieved a job with pay/benifits that the MTA workers just recieved in their contracts alogn with the protections I'd be doing cart wheels out in the Streets of Baghdad.