Turntable vs Transfer table

On the cover of the Central Headlight for 3rd quarter 2010, there is a beautiful picture of the Collinwood OH service facility. They draw attention to a transfer table above and to the left of the big roundhouse. The steam era was dominated by turntables and roundhouses. What were the circumstances that encouraged the use of transfer tables instead of turntables and roundhouses.

Transfer tables were used at car erecting and repair shops such as Pullman and others. You could have a large or several large buildings with lateral tracks inside, and easily move a car from bay to bay. Roundhouses and turntables mostly for storing locomotives (and servicing them) as well as turning them at ends of runs.

This just occurred to me on reading this thread, but couldn't you get a lot more work done in a given space with the parallel tracks permitted by a transfer table, than with tracks fanning out from a central turntable? Also, parallel tracks permit extensive overhead cranes spanning all the tracks. (Of course, a turntable permits turning the locomotive during the transfer, and I have the impression that overhead cranes, etc., are needed more in backshops than in routine maintenance in a roundhouse.)

Thanks Gentlemen for the information. I have a couple more questions: Are transfer tables and/or turntables still in use today? Someone once suggested to me that turntables may not be in use because of the fire hazard. If a roundhouse was full of locomotives and a fire broke out, there would be no way to get the locomotives out quickly. Is there any record of this happening?

HS

Howard Sterenberg wrote:Thanks Gentlemen for the information. I have a couple more questions: Are transfer tables and/or turntables still in use today? Someone once suggested to me that turntables may not be in use because of the fire hazard. If a roundhouse was full of locomotives and a fire broke out, there would be no way to get the locomotives out quickly. Is there any record of this happening?

HS

Turntables are still in use, but their numbers are few as there is little reason needed to turn a diesel. Turntables survive at some of the older shops.

Transfer tables are usually reserved for backshop situations where access to many tracks would make it impractical to have a roundhouse and turntable arrangement.

Specifically on the former New York Central? I'm not sure.

-otto-

Norfolk Southern's Juniata, Pennsylvania engine rebuilding shops have both, and both are used.

Diesels are turned, especially when operated elephant style (all facing the same direction). At the end of the line, some will have to be turned to operate correct end forward for the return trip.

When possible, diesels that commonly run together are set up so the "outside" engines are facing away from each other. That way they don't need to be turned, since the consist of engines can be run from either end engine. It's not always possible, so sometimes an engine will have to be turned for a return trip...or the lead engine just has to run backwards.

Steam engines tended to have most of their moving parts on the front half of the engine, things like cylinders, valve gear, etc. Steam engines normally went into a roundhouse nose first, so that left more room around the front of the engine, where most of the work tended to be done (since each engine stall was shaped like a piece of pie). Although many railroads continued to use a roundhouse when diesels came along, it was quickly realized that the room could be better used for a "squarehouse" engine house for the diesels, since their repair work tended to be on the sides rather than the front (access doors on the side of the engine on a GP for example).

It's true in the case of a fire, there isn't a quick way to get engines out of a roundhouse with a turntable...but it takes a steam engine a long time to get up enough steam to move anyway, so I don't think that was that big an issue. It probably wouldn't be any quicker using a transfer table.

BTW as I recall, the pic referred to in the Headlight was pointing out that the transfer table had it's own small turntable, so engines, freight or passenger cars could be turned around if needed before being put onto the transfer table to be moved to a stall to be worked on.

I believe the GE locomotive factory (which is at least adjacent to the ex-NYC main line: north of the tracks, just east of the Erie PA passenger station, though I think Amtrak has to be running hours late for you to see it from the Lakeshore Limited) has an active transfer table. Their erecting hall ("Building 10") is set up so that locomotives get assembled side-by-side: perhaps a transfer table takes up less space than the fan of tracks that would be needed to reach each bay of the erecting shop?

Correct the Erie plant has two transfer tables, see bing maps (bird eye view)

A recent Headlight also reproduced official New York Central instructions from the mid-sixties to the effect that main line pool locomotive consists were to be set up so that a four unit consist could drop a unit and the first and third units would be facing opposite directions.

That was to eliminate the need for turning the engines in terminals (for quick turnaround times) but in and of itself undoubtedly required the use of turntables to set up the consists in the manner desired.

Tommy Meehan wrote:A recent Headlight also reproduced official New York Central instructions from the mid-sixties to the effect that main line pool locomotive consists were to be set up so that a four unit consist could drop a unit and the first and third units would be facing opposite directions.

That was to eliminate the need for turning the engines in terminals (for quick turnaround times) but in and of itself undoubtedly required the use of turntables to set up the consists in the manner desired.

I can only think of two turntables still in use in New York and maybe I am stretching it a little bit with one of them. One is at
Morris Park on the LIRR and the other is at Port Jervis. I don't know of any others but I am probably wrong on this one.
At Selkirk for example when they need to turn an engine it is simple, a loop within engine house limits, most locomotives
headed for Syracuse, Buffalo and beyond leave the fuel plant in an east direction and move around the loop before using the
runner to the west end of the yard for their train. If the engine consist was not to be turned, they could simply back out of
the plant on to the engine runner or they could go out the west end of the plant to the runner.
There are loads of places where it is not difficult to turn an engine either by a loop or a wye but I can't really think of any
other turntables in New York State.
Noel Weaver

Turntables: Still one at Hornell, and CP installed one at East Binghamton when they could not use the old one at the DL&W roundhouse.

RSD15 wrote:Turntables: Still one at Hornell, and CP installed one at East Binghamton when they could not use the old one at the DL&W roundhouse.

Thank you for this, I wasn't aware of either one but then Binghamton and Hornell were not part of my territory either for
residence nor work.
Noel Weaver

The Binghamton turntable is only like 8 years old .
http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.p ... nseq=19036