Railroad Forums 

  • Trainline/Telegraph on the Reading

  • Discussion Related to the Reading Company 1833-1976 and it's predecessors Philadelphia and Reading Rail Road and then the Philadelphia and Reading Railway.
Discussion Related to the Reading Company 1833-1976 and it's predecessors Philadelphia and Reading Rail Road and then the Philadelphia and Reading Railway.

Moderator: Franklin Gowen

 #504529  by jfrey40535
 
I'm curious to know if anyone has ever documented the use of the telegraph and later trainline phone system on the Reading.

Certain non-electrified routes still have remnants in place today, such as Newtown (from Newtown to around Olney), Bethlehem (north of Lansdale) and Reading branches.

My guess is the systems were removed on the electrified lines near the time of electrification. Can anyone confirm?

I do remember the trainline being used on the Newtown branch for train operators to communicate with the tower operator at Bethayers in the early 1980's. My guess is this may have been one of the last uses of a trainline phone in this area.

When did the Reading institute the use of radios over trainlines?
I'm curious to know how communications evolved over the railroad during the Reading and early conrail years.

Thanks!

 #505058  by JimBoylan
 
As late as May, 1989, NHIR crews could still get the phone at Street Rd., Johnsville to sometimes work to call Wayne Jct. tower. It had 3 sockets for Wayne Operator, Wind Operator, and Power Dispatcher.

 #505074  by jfrey40535
 
Interesting! I assume then that the wiring was integrated when electrification went in, which is probablly about when the older style telegraph poles were removed.

Today NHIR calls SEPTA's dispatch desk via radio when requesting permission to enter SEPTA territory. Trainlines are obsolete now as cell phones now act as a backup when there are problems with the radio.

 #505095  by BuddSilverliner269
 
Hi Jeff, I worked at the NHIR in 99-01 and the trainline phone defiantely wasnt in service in Warminster. We all had cell phones and radios to use. Also now Wayne Tower isnt open anymore as everything has moved up to the RROC.You can see all the phone boxes all over the system but of course they arent used. I think they may still be in use on the Harrisburg line at least for a part of the line out to at least Paoli or farther out. I have seen them and it looked liek they were being used during the rail project.

 #505136  by JimBoylan
 
jfrey40535 wrote:Interesting! I assume then that the wiring was integrated when electrification went in, which is probablly about when the older style telegraph poles were removed.
For some distance out of sight beyond Johnsville towards Reading Terminal, the phone cable was carried on the old poles. Maybe the change was at Hatboro, the end of the original electrification? However, the electrified West Trenton branch had the old poles and wires into the ConRail era.

 #505242  by jfrey40535
 
Budd, since you chimed in, do your bulletin orders ever make mention of policies for communications? e.g. what to do when the radio doesn't work and you don't have a working cell phone?

I'm sure when the RROC opened that they didn't take into consideration the old trainline system, I'm sure most of that died out when Reading Terminal closed along with the remaining towers in the early 90's. Interesting that SEPTA left some of the old phone boxes in place, usually they're pretty good about sanitizing things on the RRD. Phone boxes still exist at some stations, but are primarily used for PA announcements.

Jim, I never noticed the old poles on the Neshaminy line, so I'm guessing SEPTA removed them sometime near when they took over the system. In fact over all of SEPTA, I don't see any remnants, except between Olney and Fox Chase on the Newtown line. You can still find the old phone boxes north of Fox Chase. I'm guessing when the old poles came down, the trainline came down with it. Although along many of SEPTA's ex-Reading lines there is a 'swath' of wiring on poles that parallel the route, but I've never noticed phone boxes, so I'm guessing the wiring is for signalling and not communications.

Outside of SEPTA land, some still exist along the ex-PRSL/NJT Atlantic City line.

I guess its safe to say in key areas the trainline was maintained (or taped together) well into Conrail or before the advent of cell phones. Again, during that era, I was curious to know what crews used as a backup to radios.

 #505410  by BuddSilverliner269
 
Well Jfrey of course no mention what to do in our TT when our radios go out so of course we rely on our cell phones. The rule says cell phone use is strictkly prohibited unless your performing a job duty. They need to clarify that in general in rule books anyway because I take it that if my radio goes out and I have no way to contact a dispatcher then I can operate my train and teh cell at the same time because Im performing my duties????? Also There are a few places where you can find the phone boxes along the ROW and the one that I just saw yesterday is at the old AYERS crossing on the West Trenton line.Its funny, someone at work gave me a copy of the 1st TT when the CCCT opened and alot of changes compared to todays TT like the locations of the trainline phones etc and alot hasnt changed so much such as slow speeds. Hahahahaha

 #507313  by limejuice
 
SEPTA maintained the cranky-phones until the mid-nineties. There was never a move to get rid of them, so whatever hasn't been stolen or plowed over for new construction is still there. They were even installed on the airport line, although those are a bit more modern - no cranking required. Open line wire existed on SEPTA at least until the late eighties. The existing signal locations on the Warminster branch include a diagram of the pole line circuits that currently run on aerial multiconductor cable. Both are not long for this world.

 #507410  by BuddSilverliner269
 
yeah I know that cable line on the Warminster line wont be around much longer as Septa is gearing up for the installation of the horribly designed rule 562 on that line. The line will be even slower. I hate to think how far back the trains will have to start slowing down going north approaching Warminster station? Maybe Willow Grove??? Unfortunately Septa let the signal dept go wild with this new Septa and instead of disciplining or firing bad engineera, they design a system so that even the dumbest person can run on. Lil do they know that slow cab signals arent the savior....Oh well just my rant.

 #520000  by jfrey40535
 
I was out taking photos of boring SEPTA trains today and wound up in Southampton, so I had the opportunity to document some of the artifacts left along the ROW. Interestingly enough, someone was kind enough to clear all the brush out making the line walkable between Southampton & County Line (you can actually see the cars crossing the County Line crossing from Southampton--I haven't seen that since '83!).

Anyway, was wondering if anyone could identify what some of these objects are. They look like they could have been phone boxes, or relay cases. There were 2 of these boxes within about 40 feet of each other, and I've seen these all over the line. I'm guessing most are gone on the active ex-RDG electrified commuter lines today.

I'm guessing its either something with the trainline, or relays for the grade crossing signals.

Just south of Oskar Huber Siding/South of 2nd Street Pike
Image

Opposite Southampton Station
Image

South of 2nd Street pike/opposite Oskar Huber siding. Interestingly, the lock is still intact on this box, despite the fact that its out in the open. I wonder if its a SEPTA/Conrail or RDG lock, and what's inside!
Image

This box is the same size & shape as the last one, except vandals got to it. For a line that really didn't have waysides I'm guessing its either for communications, or some type of relay for the crossing protection.
Image

 #520058  by westernfalls
 
jfrey40535 wrote:For a line that really didn't have waysides...
Into the early 1970's, the Newtown Branch was equipped with automatic block signals all the way to Newtown.
Your first picture, for sure, was a part of that system.

 #520155  by jfrey40535
 
westernfalls wrote:Into the early 1970's, the Newtown Branch was equipped with automatic block signals all the way to Newtown.
Your first picture, for sure, was a part of that system.
Interesting. I never would have guessed since the nearest wayside to the locations I photographed were south of County Line Station. From the track chart I have the next one was north of Churchville.

 #520283  by limejuice
 
jfrey40535 wrote:Interesting! I assume then that the wiring was integrated when electrification went in, which is probablly about when the older style telegraph poles were removed.
Just to recap, open-line wire (ie, the old style telegraph poles) was pretty common on the Reading side until the late 80's. They probably had one row for the signal circuits, another for communications, and perhaps another for 4400V signal power. I know in many places along the line from Jenkin to Dale, the old poles are still there, and they carry the signal power. This is in the process of being replaced with a 2 conductor twisted aerial cable hung on the catenary poles. The signal and communication circuits were replaced in the late 80's with multiconductor cables, and these are being phased out by fiber optics. If you look at the poles on the main line between Jenkin and Dale, you'll see 2 heavy cables. The fatter one carried the ABS/signal circuits, and the smaller one was comm lines, including the code line. These are now both dead, as fiber optics are now everywhere north of Wayne Jct.

As mentioned before, the block line telephones were in service until Wayne and Wind were closed. As for the other side of the system, i know similar phones were in use on the Airport line until A-tower was closed. You didn't have to crank these, you just picked the phone up, and it rang on the other side. I don't know if they had any such phones in use on the West Chester Branch. I know there are phone boxes at stations, but I don't know what's inside them. I've seen one at Arsenal, and it presumably communicated with Broad tower.
jfrey40535 wrote: Just south of Oskar Huber Siding/South of 2nd Street Pike
Image
This is an old Union Switch & Signal relay case. For some reason we call them 'submarine' cases. Judging by the battery well to the left, this probably had track feeds and relays for the crossing, but may have interfaced with the NWP (normal switch repeater) circuit that ran between the DS signals north of Southampton and south of County Line.
jfrey40535 wrote:Opposite Southampton Station
Image
Tough call. Looks like a phone box, but the GRS name leads me to believe it's signal equipment. Perhaps a cutout for the crossing? What's inside? Next time I'm up there I'll look.
jfrey40535 wrote:South of 2nd Street pike/opposite Oskar Huber siding. Interestingly, the lock is still intact on this box, despite the fact that its out in the open. I wonder if its a SEPTA/Conrail or RDG lock, and what's inside!
Image
That's a splice box, aka "LA" (lightning arrestor) box. This more than likely broke the aerial NWP circuit to a buried cable going to the circuit controller and point detector on the Oskar Huber siding switch and derail (if there was one).
jfrey40535 wrote:This box is the same size & shape as the last one, except vandals got to it. For a line that really didn't have waysides I'm guessing its either for communications, or some type of relay for the crossing protection.
Image
Same as the previous. I see four wires. 2 in and 2 out.

 #520302  by limejuice
 
TheOneCalledA1 wrote:http://www.fgmgaming.com/septa/05-07-07_1611.jpg
http://www.fgmgaming.com/septa/05-07-07_1612.jpg
http://www.fgmgaming.com/septa/05-07-07_1613.jpg

This is what Budd mentioned about the stuff at AYRES, or what is left of it as of last May...
That's a splice box, or "LA" box. The glass things are lightning arrestors, which are designed to ground a lightning strike instead of melting a whole bunch of $800 relays. At this particular location, the aerial line wires are terminated into a cable, which takes these circuits under the Neshaminy line. These circuits appear to be the ABS line circuits for the Newtown Branch. ABS on the Newtown Branch, as far as I can tell, only went as far as Fetters Mill Road. From there north, it was all manual block or TT&TO. You can see the old double-masts in many places. In older pictures you see them carrying upper quadrant semaphores. I don't believe that these were ever part of an automatic system, though. I believe they were operated by the local agent as part of a manual block system. Now there were signals on the branch up until the end of service. They were the DS, or distant switch position indicator signals. There was a pair within Newtown boro protecting the switch into Agway, but they're long gone. There was also a pair protecting 3 sidings and the passing track in Southampton. The northbound still stands south of County Line Rd. while the southbound I'm unsure of. If it's still there, I imagine it's somewhere north of Street Rd, but even in the winter, the brush is unnavigable up there.